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Speaker 1

00:06

Hello and welcome to Futures, the new podcast series brought to you by Sips, the Chartered Institute of Procurement and Supply. Hi I'm Emma Scott, I'm Head of Content at Sips and I'm joined by Sam. Hey, Sam.

Speaker 2

00:24

Hi, I'm Sam O'Champong. I'm the Regional Manager Director for Sips Middle East and North Africa. How's it going, Emma?

Speaker 1

00:30

I was just wondering how on earth we landed this gig, Sam. I guess our combined couple of decades of procurement experience should qualify us.

Speaker 2

00:39

And wit and charm.

Speaker 1

00:40

And wit and charm, yes. What was it you said we were going to have during these podcasts?

Speaker 2

00:45

Well, I thought we'd have some rants and bants but I thought you said we're gonna have some bants and rants so I'm not sure which way around.

Speaker 1

00:51

Well I guess it depends on you know what we have more of, hopefully more bants. But yeah hopefully we'll be getting to know some procurement professionals, a bit more about their careers etc how they got into procurement. I mean, I absolutely stumbled into procurement, but I know that you actually sought it out from the beginning, didn't you?

Speaker 2

01:08

I sort of didn't, I didn't. I was working in another career in an organisation back in London and I was actually working in the Facilities Management Department and we were working on a large procurement transaction as part of what I was doing. So after that project finished I asked if I could join the procurement team and I was interviewed and that's how I joined.

Speaker 2

01:27

So yeah it is a bit of choice, It is a bit of wanting to be in procurement, but ultimately, yeah, I didn't aspire to be in procurement from university or as a kid. So it's the same journey, but the end product is the same as you, Emma.

Speaker 1

01:40

Yeah, I was doing a temp job following university and somebody I sat next to was leaving and they said, do you want her job? And I was like, yeah, sure What is it she does and you know, that was it Kind of really did feel fall into it that way. I was just desperate for my first permanent job after university But yeah, and now your son works in procurement Sam

Speaker 2

02:02

Yeah, I've created a procurement dynasty as I say or I'll say dynasty and I'll tell you why I'm saying dynasty in a second. But yes, my son followed me into procurement after asking me for many, many years what exactly I do and me being unable to correctly articulate to him what procurement is. But when he finished university and I had moved out to Dubai, he suddenly thought procurement was cool and he followed my footsteps into procurement.

Speaker 2

02:28

So yes, my son is the person who voluntarily from university got into procurement and he's thoroughly enjoying it just like I am.

Speaker 1

02:38

I bore my children regularly when things come on the news and I go, see that's procurement, that's what we do. And they just roll their eyes at me. Although I do think the negotiation prowess of teenagers is something to be heralded.

Speaker 1

02:50

So if mine ever did go into procurement, then I'm sure they'd nail that side of things.

Speaker 2

02:54

I think they would. And look, there are some interesting roles, as we know. And I think that's probably a very good point to introduce our guests because it's not going to be just you and I, Emma, ranting and banting as we planned, but we do have a special guest with us and we can't wait to talk to her.

Speaker 2

03:13

So waiting in the wings we have Amanda Davies who is the Chief Sustainability and Procurement Officer at Mars Wrigley. Hi Amanda.

Speaker 3

03:25

Hi there, delighted to join you for Rants Bants with hopefully some wooden jump.

Speaker 1

03:32

Great to have you.

Speaker 2

03:33

Well you threw us a little bit there, Amanda, because I did say dynasty because I was going to focus on the American accent because you're obviously based in the Windy City, but you don't have that accent, do you, Amanda, even though you're based in Chicago?

Speaker 3

03:46

No, no, I don't have a Northwestern accent. I was born in the UK, grew up in the Middle East, moved over to Chicago about 7 years ago.

Speaker 2

03:55

Fantastic. So it's dynasty then, Amanda?

Speaker 3

03:59

It's definitely dynasty.

Speaker 2

04:01

But it seems as if you are a world citizen. I did hear that reference to the Middle East where of course I'm based, I've been based out here in Dubai for 15 years. But whereabouts were you based in the Middle East, Amanda?

Speaker 2

04:12

Do you want to talk a little bit about that?

Speaker 3

04:15

Yeah, I was based in the Sultanate of Oman, so not far from Dubai. And I actually had some cousins who lived in Dubai, so I regularly visited as a child. So it was a fabulous place to grow up and really, as you say, kind of gives you that perspective as a global citizen from an early age.

Speaker 2

04:37

I did introduce your job title at the start and, you know, in this era many people struggle to do 1 job but you seem to have 2. So let's talk a little bit about this dual role that you have, sustainability and procurement. If in fact it is a dual role, perhaps you can expand on that a little bit.

Speaker 3

04:55

It probably doesn't feel like a dual role simply because as we think about sourcing and procurement in Mars, sustainability is absolutely embedded in how we think and kind of thinking about the purpose of the business and the responsibility of procurement. So it's a very natural synergy of responsibilities that I hold responsible for sourcing the materials that make many of our delicious products whilst ensuring we do that in an incredibly responsible way, because most of the impact we have on the planet actually comes from our extended supply chain. So hence the reason for the combination of both procurement and sustainability.

Speaker 1

05:50

And do you think procurement is best placed to lead organisations sustainability drive though, Amanda? Do you think it's harder and easier in some sectors? You think it just naturally worked for Mars for it to sit within procurement?

Speaker 3

06:04

I think it does. And, you know, many, many people I've spoken to in procurement feel that, you know, we've got an incredibly influential role in kind of making the choices about how we source. And if you look at the responsibilities of, I call it 360 value, making sure that we bring in the right materials, Obviously at the right time, right quality, the right price and with the responsible impact.

Speaker 3

06:39

I absolutely think it fits very naturally to kind of have those 2 things combined. And as I talk to not just in the business, but probably even more importantly, externally to our partners, it really helps if I kind of go with 1 voice about the expectations that I have and really combine sustainability into those expectations.

Speaker 2

07:10

I mean, it's interesting how you mentioned the word combined quite a few times there, Amanda. And at what point do we think that there really will be no separation at all between the definitions of procurement and sustainability? In other words, there won't be such a thing as sustainable procurement, there'll just be procurement that's naturally sustainable.

Speaker 2

07:30

Are we heading in that direction?

Speaker 3

07:32

I think we've still got quite a long way to go, not because procurement can't take the responsibility of sustainability and embed that in, but because of the work still to do, it absolutely requires focus and attention. If you look at a job to be done in terms of getting, I can use Mars as an example, getting ourselves to net 0, we need to get ourselves to minus 50% greenhouse gas by 2030. That's not going to happen unless I, as a leader, pay really, really special attention to that.

Speaker 3

08:15

And so whilst we still are on this journey of truly living up to the responsibilities of driving the impacts that we have to do as leaders, It requires us to kind of highlight sustainability as an absolute focus. So it's far, far too early for me to think that we can assume that sustainability is embedded in procurement. We have too much work to do. It deserves it to be kind of called out.

Speaker 1

08:50

Do you think we're set up in the right way? Is procurement itself sustainable? Have we got the right business model for procurement to be around in its current guise for the next 30 odd years?

Speaker 1

09:02

And if so, is it in its right guides to actually address these sustainability issues?

Speaker 3

09:09

In part, yes. And also there's always opportunities that every function has to kind of evolve. So, you know, why do I think procurement is set up to lead and drive sustainability?

Speaker 3

09:27

There's a number of factors. So first of all, as a function, we own the purse of the business, we own where the dollars go. That is an incredible responsibility that comes with a huge amount of influence that we have. So that's an incredibly important influence that we have to drive change.

Speaker 3

09:50

The second is, you know, part of procurement's responsibility is to truly understand supply chains. And I call it from the field forward, not from the office back, because, you know, a procurement leader truly understands their extended supply chain. And with that perspective, you can truly understand the impact in your supply chains and also have the opportunity to reinvent those supply chains if they are not fit for purpose. And I think the third area that I think procurement is really brilliantly placed for leading on sustainability is the muscle it has in delivering value.

Speaker 3

10:40

Procurement has a real expertise of finding value, delivering on the promises it has made to the P&L. We're equipped to do that. It's part of our DNA, finding value and then following through, breaking barriers and making it happen. So we have that, I say, superpower to deliver impact for the P&L.

Speaker 3

11:07

A superpower, I believe, can be absolutely translated to delivering our commitments to the planet. So holding that same level of performance culture on dollars as we do for greenhouse gas. So those are things I think we're super equipped to do, but we all need to evolve. We need to get better at our data and analytics.

Speaker 3

11:30

We need to make sure we have digital twins of our entire supply chain so that we understand every moment of the day where the impact is being made. So still some things we need to evolve.

Speaker 1

11:43

Absolutely. I think, you know, measuring the right things gets the right results and drives the right behaviors. I think moving away from purely measuring on savings to much broader measures is certainly a way to change hearts and minds and culture Because a lot of this is around a change of mindset and more than as much as anything.

Speaker 3

12:08

Yeah, I would agree and you know, I think 1 of the things that in terms of the mindset that we need to hold as leaders and procurement leaders is we are the first generation where we can't say we didn't know about the impacts of climate change. We just can't say that. And therefore we're the last generation that can act on it before it's too late.

Speaker 3

12:36

That's the thing that I think we all need to hold in terms of our, you know, kind of mindset and culture. It's, we can't shy away from the facts. They are in front of us, you know, science-based facts on climate change. And we also then have to lean into that responsibility that says, you know, if it's not us, it's not gonna happen and kind of own that level of responsibility for driving change.

Speaker 1

13:05

Wholeheartedly agree. And I think this is the way that we attract the next generation of procurement professionals. Surely, the next generation are all over this, that they've been brought up in the environment where everyone is talking about this.

Speaker 1

13:20

So using that as a lever to attract young people into the profession is surely the right way to do that.

Speaker 3

13:28

100% if I'm Talking to new joiners to the function in Mars, if I'm kind of recruiting and saying what differentiates procurement in Mars, talking about the absolute responsibility that we have for sustainability for the enterprise is absolutely 1 of the reasons that I can attract some of the best talent in the industry.

Speaker 2

13:59

And this agility, I think, in your role, Amanda, because of course, when you first went into this role, I'm sure the job title and the job description was not as it is right now. So how easy was it for your organisation to be agile enough to change the way it operates to support kind of your drives and ambitions as a chief procurement officer.

Speaker 3

14:21

I feel incredibly privileged to have grown up professionally in Mars because 1 thing that absolutely kind of stands out for me, 1 of the reasons I've stayed with Mars for so very long is the purpose and the people. The purpose comes from being a family-owned business that absolutely has put sustainability at the heart of our purpose for years. So this kind of evolution of procurement and sustainability coming together has been incredibly organic over, you know, the last decade.

Speaker 3

15:07

But it's been driven by a business that absolutely holds the impact that we make on the planet core to kind of its purpose. So it's been a very organic transition, but 1 that's absolutely part of the business purpose. So it hasn't felt like a functional crusade to try and move us there. It's very, very embedded in the purpose of the business.

Speaker 2

15:40

I mean, that must be incredibly satisfying, Amanda, that you've got the kudos and direction, I guess, from the stakeholders above you and around in the executive, I suppose. Do you have examples of projects or initiatives that have given you the most satisfaction in this particular area in your current role or even before?

Speaker 3

16:01

So 1 that I'm super proud of is the fact that, you know, Mars were a founding member of a new coalition, the Supplier Leadership on Climate Transition. That was us trying to really try and drive change across the industry. 1 that's perhaps a little bit closer to me personally is a project that we just kicked off with 1 of our dairy suppliers, actually in terms of in Germany, and said, actually, we want a dairy farm to get to kind of net 0.

Speaker 3

16:34

So being able to kind of stand with a farmer and dream about how they can capture all their carbon is something that I find, you know, just again, kind of sat with farmers and understanding it from a farmer back, I'm super excited about some of the innovation that we're doing in cocoa in partnership with UC Davis. And probably the final 1 I'd pull up is seeing where kind of sustainability and technology come together. The fact that we are polygon mapping our cocoa farms, 89% of them we've mapped, which is kind of like tracing the entire perimeter of every farm in our supply chain so that we can really look and monitor and verify about our commitments around deforestation. So kind of a handful of kind of examples that I've been super privileged and excited to work with.

Speaker 1

17:31

I think anyone who follows you on LinkedIn, Amanda, will see just how often you're out there and visiting these far-flung places in the world and really hands-on with suppliers. Is that something that really excites you about your job actually physically getting in your sleeves rolled up and getting in there with suppliers?

Speaker 3

17:52

Oh yeah absolutely I call it kind of getting my boots dirty. I seem to have kind of developed a little bit of a fascination if you follow me recently with manure and dairy. Yeah, I came back to, a few years ago, I gave myself the challenge of needing to rethink about supply chains.

Speaker 3

18:18

I'd spent a lot of my career doing procurement, and I'd say kind of centered in the office and through PowerPoint. So, you know, inviting suppliers to come and visit me, showing me PowerPoints of what was going on. And I made a really conscious choice to rethink about how I wanted to understand supply chains. And it was from, it was farmer forward.

Speaker 3

18:43

And I made a commitment that I would meet a hundred farmers in 20 different countries, across many different crops, and learn about supply chains from the farmer forward. And I have to say, that is the point that I moved from being a procurement professional to a sustainability and procurement leader and there is nothing more powerful and more insightful than stood next to a farmer learning about how our supply chains work.

Speaker 1

19:17

That is fascinating really getting under the bonnet of the ins and outs and and until you see that with your own eyes it's not until then that you can really think through right okay what can we do to help here what's going wrong what's what's working And you must have such a diverse range of skills and readiness, I guess, in your supply base, because you use small farmers to large corporates that you build with. How do you get those conversations started with some of those less mature suppliers, those who aren't as geared up perhaps with that way of thinking?

Speaker 3

19:53

I think it starts with role modeling. And I remember a not so, a fairly recent example where I was talking to a supplier about a material that we wanted to kind of source. And I said, right, well, just to let you know, I will be going to the origin, to the field, to kind of visit this, and I'm going to be taking a couple of other business leaders with me.

Speaker 3

20:21

And that supplier kind of said to me quite openly that our exec team haven't visited the Origin yet, and a customer is going to go there first, that's a really powerful wake-up call. But because we did that, we took the whole, you know, it then triggered a change in the supplier to say, I need to get my leadership team all the way back to origin. I can't have a customer going there first. Our responsibility is to both create expectations of suppliers and also kind of create, you know, share capability building.

Speaker 3

20:58

And I think that's, you know, Because not everybody is in the same level of maturity. Not everyone has had the privilege of working in a purpose, family-owned business that has been thinking, you know, and thinks in multi-generations. And so when other suppliers are not quite on that same level of maturity and either their understanding of the challenges, the understanding of the supply base, I see I've got kind of 2 jobs. 1 is to awaken their curiosity and the second is create very clear expectations and it's got to be a combination of the 2.

Speaker 1

21:35

Do you provide opportunities so some of your more mature suppliers who have got it, can they kind of coach or mentor any kind of peer-to-peer exchange that you have between suppliers?

Speaker 3

21:49

Oh, absolutely. I really believe in partnership and ecosystem work. And we've, not too long ago, brought a cohort of suppliers together from the same category to talk about some of these challenges together.

Speaker 3

22:07

And I was very clear that everybody in this, some of the challenges that we need to unlock, climate, packaging, these are things that not 1 individual can do alone. And part of making big bold changes, you've got to lose your ego and think that you're responsible to drive this change yourself. You're part of a system that needs to change and part of that responsibility is about bringing people together and thinking about it together, creating collaborative impact is something I feel incredibly passionately about.

Speaker 2

22:53

I like that term, collaborative impact. I think that's when people are looking for measures of procurement, I think we can probably add that to the list. I think you're really reinventing the, I guess, the archetype or the core skills that procurement leaders should or would need going forward.

Speaker 2

23:12

How do we make these kind of behaviors the norm for procurement leaders?

Speaker 3

23:19

It's about, yeah, first of all, you know, sharing what you're doing, to see if you can be a role model in some small, humble way. The reason I share some of the activities that I do on, on LinkedIn is to see if that triggers anybody else in the profession, sparks an idea, makes them feel a bit bolder, makes them feel a bit safer to go on the journey. So I think it starts with those that kind of see this possibility as being role models.

Speaker 3

24:00

The second thing I think it requires is this mindset of collaborative advantage versus competitive advantage, so kind of decentering yourself. And then I think the other piece, and I talk to my team a lot about this, is my job as a leader is really, really simple. It's simply to create the psychological safety for my team to be their most bold and brilliant versions of themselves. And I think that's what procurement has got so many strengths, so many superpowers.

Speaker 3

24:41

But sometimes I think the thing that holds us back as a function is almost that belief in ourselves that we have the permission, the mandate to kind of go and drive some of these bold changes and kind of unlock the brilliance of procurement. So, you know, it's about creating belief, it's about creating bold ideas, and it's kind of unlocking the brilliance of procurement in the organization.

Speaker 2

25:14

How does an organization or leader who hasn't quite cracked that rapport with the wider C-suites to kind of give them the autonomy to implement some of the ideas and initiatives you're talking about around sustainability and value add. How does that leader or that team influence upwards to create the environment you have?

Speaker 3

25:37

I think it all starts with your confidence and your belief in yourself and the function. I think you can walk into the boardroom in 2 ways. You can walk into the boardroom seeking permission to drive change, or you can walk into the boardroom demonstrating confidence that you know how to kind of drive change.

Speaker 3

26:06

My encouragement to anyone who doesn't feel they've yet got their mandate is to walk in with that confidence and belief in themselves as leaders, in their bold ideas and the brilliance of human. If you walk into a room with that level of confidence about yourself and the function, I think doors will open. If you walk into a room kind of asking for permission, you're going to get more questions because you're not putting yourself forward with that belief in yourself.

Speaker 1

26:55

Amanda, I'm going to do a bit of a light challenge on you now. We're calling it a I'm not buying it type section of our podcast that we're going to be introducing. It's not as easy as you say is it to connect the dots and align procurement and sustainability in a global organization at this scale.

Speaker 3

27:15

I would wholeheartedly disagree. It is possible to join the dots if you see them for yourself and if you believe in them. So, you know, I think it comes from understanding that there is an absolute responsibility, a mandate that procurement must take to drive sustainability because it is responsible for sourcing and in the majority of businesses the footprint of in the extended supply chain is bigger than the internal business.

Speaker 3

27:54

If you've joined that dot, the rest then comes down to your commitment, your belief and your responsibility as a change leader. So yeah, I think it is possible, but it starts with kind of understanding, you know, the scope that procurement covers and repositioning value from a delivering of value to the P&L to this 360 value.

Speaker 2

28:24

Mars and yourself, you're making great strides and by many measures you're leading the way in procurement and sustainable procurement and probably even sustainability in general as a subject. In the interests of continuous improvement, what more do you think you can do and what's next for you and your organisation?

Speaker 3

28:45

I sit here incredibly proud about how we have as a business reduced our greenhouse gas emissions by 8% while growing the business 60% since 2015. And I also sit here incredibly proud that I have a pipeline to reduce our greenhouse gas by 50% by 2030 for Mars Rootley. So I sit there super, super proud of what we've done and the pipeline I can see to 2030.

Speaker 3

29:15

Can see to 2030. But being proud about a pipeline of minus 50%, when you have got a net 0 by 2050, there's still a huge amount of work to be done. And so my attention for the next coming years is not about getting ourselves to minus 50 by 2030. I feel relatively comfortable about that.

Speaker 3

29:41

It's about the next 50%. That's where we're going to have to kind of really think about technology, science and bringing those together. That's why I spend time sat in, not sat, stood in barns with farmers thinking about, you know, what are we going to do? What radical science and technology is going to allow us to capture carbon.

Speaker 3

30:05

What do we need to do about kind of reinventing food to allow us to get to kind of net 0. So we have so much work to do, so much work to do, but I'm super excited about that because if you've got that combination of purpose, brilliant procurement leaders in the business, fabulous partners that you're working with in your supply chain, I look at that huge challenge with excitement, not fear, but nevertheless kind of acknowledging we still have a huge amount of work to do.

Speaker 1

30:42

Thank you, Amanda. I have absolutely loved our conversation. Thanks for joining us and being our first guest.

Speaker 1

30:47

It's been really great.

Speaker 2

30:48

Maybe we'll have a part 2 because I'm sure there's lots more to say on this as well. Don't you think Emma?

Speaker 1

30:52

Yeah, no. And you need to follow Amanda on LinkedIn to see her knee deep in manure in her wellies.

Speaker 2

30:58

I'm on it. I'm on it. Okay.

Speaker 1

31:01

Thanks ever so much.

Speaker 2

31:03

Take care.

Speaker 3

31:03

Thank you, bye.

Speaker 2

31:07

Well that's it for our first episode of Futures. We'll be back in the new year with episode 2 where we'll be meeting Waleed Al Saidi, Director of Supply management at Abu Dhabi Department of Culture and Tourism.

Speaker 1

31:19

This podcast has been brought to you by SIPPS, the Chartered Institute for Perumal and Supply. For more information on SIPPS, head over to sipps.org where you can find out about our upcoming events and training opportunities. Thanks for listening and speak to you next time.