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Joe Rogan Experience #2054 - Elon Musk

2 hours 41 minutes 16 seconds

🇬🇧 English

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00:03

The Joe Rogan Experience.

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Trained by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.

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00:14

I think it was me.

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00:15

I think my dog's cool. Yeah. I was like looking in the mirror.

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00:19

Have you

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seen that before?

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00:21

Did people get you 1

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of

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those? He's

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awesome. He's awesome. He's pretty edgy.

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It's amazing that he puts out a piece of art per day. 365 days a year.

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Yeah, I was following him on the X platform FK Twitter But

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it was some it was too jarring To charting some of the images. Yeah, well cheers sir. Happy Halloween.

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00:44

Thanks for doing this appreciate it Thanks for rolling up in the cyber truck too. Yeah. I got a chance to look at it in the factory but that was almost, what was that, like a year and a half ago or so?

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Was it?

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It was a while ago.

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Yeah, a year ago I guess. Yeah, at

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least a year.

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At least a year.

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And it's different in real life. Like you see it in person. Like these images are just, we were talking about it outside, you just can't contextualize them.

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Yes. It looks so odd that You have to see it in the flesh.

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It looks like computer graphics in reality.

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Yeah, it's the coolest looking fucking production car that's ever been

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made.

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It's bulletproof literally.

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Literally. Yeah.

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01:27

1 of the videos we're going to show is just going all full Al Capone. Just like if Al Capone showed up and emptied the entire magazine of a Tommy gun into the side of the

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01:40

car, you'd be okay. The only thing that's not bulletproof is

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01:42

the glass. The glass is optionally bulletproof.

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01:44

Oh, it is optional?

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01:45

If you want it, you can make anything bold proof if you want, but the glass has to be very thick for it to be bold proof. So it can't go up and down. So if you want

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01:54

to fix glass. Then how do you order drive through?

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01:57

Yeah, exactly.

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Yeah, that's a problem. It's awkward. You gotta pull ahead and open the door and get

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out. But it's okay, you can

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just duck. Yeah, you can just duck.

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Like duck where?

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02:07

How far away are you from full like delivering them to people have has anybody gotten them yet?

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02:14

We've planted our first deliveries next month.

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02:17

Oh wow. So now it's just testing and fuck it around?

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02:23

The hard part by far is manufacturing, not designing the car. So There's just not really a movie about that, but there should be. So in this sort of the, you know, movies will always be about the sort of inventor who invented the car and then the job is done.

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02:44

Right. That's invented the object, now the job is done. This is not true. That's the easy part.

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02:50

The hard part is manufacturing by far.

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02:53

Why is it so much harder than making an individual model?

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03:07

Well, in order to make it affordable, you have to make it at volume. So you've got to make everything at high rate consistently. If you tour the production line, you'd have a sense for it.

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03:25

You've got to have all of the casting machines, all of the stabbing machines as the case may be, the glass machines, the wheels, the tires, everything required from the motor, the battery cells, all of the constituents of the battery cells, all of the silicon that goes in, all of the chips. The manufacturing is somewhere between 100 and 1, 000 times harder than making a prototype. Whoa. And then if you want to say like you want to get from once you reach volume manufacturing, which is insanely difficult, then you want to make the car affordable, it's harder to, say, reduce the cost of the car by 20% than it is to get to volume production in the first place.

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04:12

So I really cannot emphasize enough how hard production is relative to design. I'm not saying that design is trivial because you have to have taste and you have to know what to make. If you don't have a taste and judgment, then your prototype will be bad. But it is trivial, really, to churn out prototypes.

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04:37

And it is extremely difficult to build a factory.

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04:40

And how much more difficult is it to make this, considering the body's made out of steel?

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04:46

Very difficult. The difficulty of manufacturing is proportionate to the amount of new technology that you have in a car or in the product. In this case, there's a lot of new technology.

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04:57

The production line will move as fast as the slowest and least lucky and most foolish part of the entire production line. And you could say to first approximation, there are 10, 000 things that have to go right, at least, for production to work. So If you have 9, 999 things that are working and 1 that isn't, that sets the production rate. That's quite far from the hard way.

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05:25

In fact, the amazing thing about automobiles was not so much the invention of the automobile, but the invention of the factory, the mass manufacturing. And for that, Henry Ford deserves a tremendous amount of credit. He was an X-level genius. In fact, Ford is really responsible for the entire mass manufacturing industry because he actually founded Cadillac, which was the heart of General Motors.

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05:53

Then it got kicked out and then it started Ford. Really? Yeah, and everyone just copied him.

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Do you know he made 1 of his first cars out of hemp?

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Well... He used hemp fiber for

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the panels. Okay.

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Yeah, it's

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a fascinating video of him banging on it with a hammer. His hemp is bizarrely durable when it's compressed and when they take the fibers, and I don't know what kind of epoxy they use or something to put it all together. But what it makes with the actual physical form of it is insanely light.

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06:24

Like fiberglass light, but very, very durable.

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See if

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you can find that video. It's kind of crazy. Henry Ford is banging on the hood of it with a hammer.

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06:34

There it

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is. So this was like, look at that. Isn't that crazy? I don't know why they stopped making them out of that.

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06:47

That was from 1941. How much does the Cybertruck weigh?

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06:53

It depends on configuration, but it's about, I don't know, 7, 000 pounds. Whoa. 6, there's different versions, but 6, 6, 7, 000 pounds.

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07:01

It's like similar to, like it's a heavy truck.

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07:05

Like a Ford F-250 or something like that. Yeah. And it, because of all of the metal and the weight and everything like that, But with the engines that you have, it's still, the 0 to 60 is pretty bizarre, right?

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07:20

It's like 3.5 or something like that?

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07:23

Well, aiming to get the 0 to 60 below 3 seconds. Below 3? Yes.

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07:28

Wow. For the, you know, the beast mode version. So we've got a beast mode version. That's a, so there's, there's, well, I don't want to give it all away right now, but there are 3 demonstrations.

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07:45

1 of them people are aware of which is you know emptying a Tommy gun into the side of the car a shotgun 45 and a 9mm and no penetrations. Wow. And that's that comes that way from the factory.

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08:01

Can I try it with an arrow?

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Yeah, it'll

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be fine. You think so? I bet I can

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08:06

get in there. A crossbow might.

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I have a 90 pound compound bow that shoots 520 grain arrows at 300 feet per second. With a razor sharp broad head. We can

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try it right

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now if you want. I wish I had it with me

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08:27

Yeah, should we send someone to go get it do the demo tonight

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08:30

that would be interesting

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08:32

Yeah, well, Maybe I'll drive back with an arrow sticking out of my car.

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08:34

I bet I could get in there.

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08:36

Okay, I'll bet you can't. Really? Yeah, I'll bet

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you dollar. Damn.

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I was like, damn.

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08:41

I think if you have a crossbow that's with enough force, a crossbow

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might get through.

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08:47

The thing about a

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crossbow is the bolt, even though it's very fast, it's not going to be nearly as heavy. You won't have as many grains.

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08:54

You can make a heavy crossbow bolt. You could,

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08:57

yeah. But generally, crossbow bolts are considerably lighter. They're much smaller. They're much faster.

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09:05

They're moving at like 400, 500 feet per second. Easy.

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09:09

Yeah. The thing that matters is kind of the energy per unit area. So interesting, like a 9-mil or a 45, which is basically sort of a 10mm the the the 45 is they're roughly the same but the 45 actually slightly worse penetration than a 9mm

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you know what I just realized I do have some broadheads. I Do have some broadheads and I have a less powerful bow.

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09:36

I

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have an 80 pound bow back

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there

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I think we should do

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09:40

it. Absolutely.

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09:40

Okay when you want to do right now

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09:42

Yeah This could be funny, but I'm just like why does he have an arrow sticking out of his car?

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09:53

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. It's a really healthy, good thing to talk about what you're going through with people. The good and the bad.

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10:00

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Speaker 2

10:26

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Speaker 2

10:40

That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P, dot com, slash JRE. I have a different project that I think can be better. How does the arrow come back in? Oh, you shoot it in full, so...

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11:04

I mean, just

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beware of ricochets. Hahaha!

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I'm like... Yeah. You might

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11:12

want to do it with a slanting bow. Oh, me.

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11:23

Ahhhhh! Hahaha! Look at that. You know what I mean?

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11:26

Damn. Look at that. There it is. Very nice.

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11:26

Oh, wow. Look at this. Blew the arrow apart. Look at that.

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11:28

Yeah.

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11:34

Flatten the tip of the arrow. Look at the tip of the broad end. That's impressive.

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11:50

Hey cutie.

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11:53

Well now we know. So we just shot an arrow into it and it barely scratched it. Barely scratched it.

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12:02

Yeah. It was probably moving 275 feet a second. That was a 525 grain-ish arrow with, yeah, even more than that, because it had the 125 grain head, so that was 545 grains. That's impressive.

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12:19

Yeah. Very impressive. It just destroyed the broadhead. The broadhead flattened at the tip.

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12:23

And then the arrow blew apart. Yeah. Amazing.

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12:28

Yeah. Like

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I said, We

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12:30

have a cool video we'll show at the handover event next month, which is emptying an entire magazine of atomic gun Which things like on the order of 50 rounds Just go you're just going full Al Capone, but you know like and the car shotgun 9-mil 45

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12:45

And you built it like this just for fun?

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12:47

Well, I mean

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12:48

it's cooler. I mean because you can

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12:53

You know trucks are supposed to be tough right? Yeah, so is your truck bulletproof?

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12:59

No, my nice mine is definitely not exactly And if I shot mine with my bow, it'd go right through it, 100%.

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13:04

So if you shoot any normal car, unlike in the movies where people hide behind car doors, a car door is basically a very thin, mild steel. So

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13:16

if you shoot a gun through a regular truck, it'll go through both doors. So

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13:25

you can't hide behind a car door like they do in the movies. Way back in the day, dating myself, but the A-Team, where they would be like, bullets flying everywhere and they'd be hiding behind the car door

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13:36

right that doesn't work but

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13:38

it doesn't decide we're truck

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13:41

was there ever

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13:42

is this best in apocalyptic technology

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13:44

yeah well it's an amazing car to have in the apocalypse.

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13:48

Yeah, exactly.

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13:49

Doesn't it also, does it still do this thing where the ride height raises? And there's also no regular drivetrain. So there's no axles that are the impediment to going over rocks and things

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14:01

like that. Yeah, normally in other vehicles, in gasoline or diesel vehicles, you've got the differential, which hangs down low between the rear wheels. So you look under a car, under a truck, there's almost always a differential there that's hanging down pretty low.

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14:16

So if you hit the diff on a rock, you'll break it. Yeah. But there's no, there's no, the bottom of the side truck is completely flat and has the best clear height of any vehicle.

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14:27

How far away are we, if it's ever going to happen at all, from having a vehicle that can operate entirely on solar?

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14:35

Well, you've got a surface area thing. So, it's about a kilowatt per square meter, normal to the sun, roughly. So, you just, it really depends on what kind of mileage.

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14:50

You can't, you don't have enough surface area to keep the car going just from the car surface area. But if you had like something that folded out, you could make it self-sustaining.

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15:02

Something that folded out so you could park it and then leave it on?

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15:06

Yeah, you'd have to unfold like the Starling satellites do where you unfold the solar panels. You just need more surface area.

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15:15

Is there any potential for an advancement in technology that would make a smaller area much better at conducting sun? Nothing?

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15:25

No, it's a kilowatt per square meter. That's what you're going to get when the sun, if you're normal to the sun, so at 90 degrees to the sun.

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15:33

And there's nothing that can accelerate that

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15:35

or no... That's just literally the solar energy.

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15:37

That's just it.

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15:38

Yeah, so then you multiply your efficiency by that. So if your commercial panels like maybe 25% efficient, if they're a good 1, So you get like 250 watts per square meter. There was 1 car,

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15:50

what was it, like a Fisker, that was using a solar panel that claimed that it was operating the electronics, like it could start the radio.

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16:00

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you can definitely, you just don't have enough service area for it. But like, you can certainly, you could run a house with solar, with the solar roof, the Tesla solar roof, you can run a house.

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16:21

But it's never going to get to a point where you can just have a car that's made out of solar panels that it could drive around, it could never be that efficient.

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16:27

Correct. You do not have enough surface area.

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16:30

What research or what breakthroughs have been made in terms of battery technology? Like how far away are we from having batteries that are far more efficient and last far longer? I know there was some talk of like sodium based batteries.

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16:47

The battery range is not a problem at this point. I mean, the Model S will go 400 miles, Model 3, Model Y will do over 300 miles. So That's more than most people need.

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17:03

So, yeah.

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17:04

But are we, I mean, how far away are we from making batteries that are more efficient? This is, like, we obviously have at least a limited technology.

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17:11

This is not, what I'm saying is this is not really a constraint. The point at which you've got a car that can do, let's say, even at highway speeds, 250 miles, then, or let's say 240 miles at 80 miles an hour. Now you're driving for 3 hours straight.

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17:31

And so if you start a trip at say 9 a.m. By noon you want to stop for lunch go to the restroom Grab a coffee by the time you come back your car is charged

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17:40

How long does it take to fully charge?

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17:44

Yeah, like Half an hour.

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17:46

Well, you don't want to it's a little the people will get used to it because it's a little different.

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17:52

You know, like for a gasoline car, you'd want to fill it up. For an electric car, you'd want to actually go very close to 0 and the car can calculate how much range it has with precision. So if you, say, enter a road trip in a Tesla, it'll calculate all of the supercharges along the way, where you stop, how much you should charge, and just let the computer do its thing, and it'll work well.

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18:18

So you actually want to charge to about 80% and then run it down all the way to 10%,

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18:24

or less. Do you want to do that on everyday use as well or just with long trips?

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18:29

No, just long trips. If you're trying to minimize the amount of time you stop when charging. So let's say you want to stop for 20-30 minutes then you really...

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18:45

It's a little counterintuitive because for a gasoline car, you would fill it up. For a battery, the charge state tapers off as you get above 80%. You can think of it like the... I think the right analogy here is cars in a parking lot.

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Speaker 3

19:01

So the lithium ions are trying to find a parking space as they move across from 1 side of the battery to the other side from you know cathode, anode, I mean they're sort of just these ions are just bouncing around looking for a parking space. So when the parking lot is empty, they can zip right in there and find a spot. It's easy. As the parking lot gets full, just like trying to find a parking space at a mall, you have to hunt around for

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19:27

a spot.

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19:28

And that's basically what's going on. The ions are looking for a parking spot. So as the battery gets closer to full, it's harder and harder to find a spot.

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19:39

They have to bounce around more.

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19:41

So it takes longer to get from 80 to 100.

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19:43

Correct. It's getting from 80 to 100. It takes about as much time as getting from 0 to 80. Just think of the islands you go to find a parking spot.

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19:54

Just like if you're in a mall and it's busy, then it takes longer to find a parking spot than if it's empty.

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20:01

So, essentially, you're satisfied with the technologies available right now in terms of the amount of mileage that you get out of it and things along those lines.

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20:11

Yeah, range is not an issue. Cost is more of an issue. So just to make the car affordable, a long-range car needs to be affordable.

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20:19

When you fully roll out, how many of those things, how many Cybertrucks can you guys make a month?

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20:29

We're aiming to make about 200, 000 a year at volume production. Wow. Maybe a little more.

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Speaker 3

20:37

But I just can't emphasize enough that manufacturing is much, much harder than the initial design. You know, you can, the Cybertruck was easy to design. I'm not trying to trivialize design. It's just, what I'm trying to do is to emphasize the difficulty of manufacturing, which is not understood by the public.

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Speaker 3

20:58

Because there's no movie about it. So there's lots of movies about the sort of Wild inventory in the garage But the I'm not aware of any movie about manufacturing Have you heard of a movie of me about manufacturing?

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Speaker 2

21:16

I can't remember any Jamie any movie about

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21:18

man coming in my brain but I think I don't think that's what it's even about so I have no idea

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Speaker 2

21:22

what is

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21:22

that Michael Keaton was making some cars and somewhere I was gonna

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Speaker 3

21:27

look it up I mean it's Tommy boy

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21:33

yes that might be the only 1 That's interesting that it's such an immense part of American culture and also the decline of some American cities. I mean, it's famously documented in Roger and Me, which is a great documentary where he just talks about how Flint got destroyed when they pulled out the car manufacturing.

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Speaker 3

21:54

Yeah, yeah. I mean there's a reason why generally politicians are really try very hard to get a factory in their area is because it's a massive generator of jobs and for every factory job there's like 5 roughly 5 support jobs you know so it's like teachers electricians plumbers lawyers accountants restaurants so there's so So manufacturing is kind of like a nucleus from which many jobs spring. That's why it's generally, governors and prime ministers and presidents will try so hard to get a factory in their country or region.

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Speaker 2

22:36

When you decided to build the Gigafactory, and when you decided, just even when you decided to get involved with Tesla, did you have any idea of how difficult this would be? Did you have a preconceived notion?

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Speaker 3

22:48

I thought it would be very difficult. I thought our probability of success was less than 10%. Wow.

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Speaker 3

22:54

Yeah, I mean, it would be foolish to think anything else other than that. I mean, Even at this point, the only car companies that have not gone bankrupt are Ford and Tesla, the American car companies. General Motors went bankrupt and Chrysler went bankrupt in 2009. There's some chance they'll go bankrupt again.

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Speaker 3

23:15

Ford and Tesla barely made it. It was incredibly difficult to keep Tesla alive when General Motors and Chrysler were going bankrupt. Because manufacturing is the actual hard thing, not by far the hard thing.

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23:32

I

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23:33

just can't emphasize that enough and I hope somebody makes a movie about that

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Speaker 2

23:36

Maybe they should make a movie about Tesla

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Speaker 3

23:39

Sure, why not? Yeah, perfect.

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Speaker 1

23:41

Who would

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Speaker 2

23:42

you want to play you?

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Speaker 3

23:43

I don't care.

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Speaker 2

23:44

How about David Spade?

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Speaker 3

23:46

Anyone But I do think that I

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Speaker 2

23:51

just went back to Tommy Boy.

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Speaker 3

23:53

Yeah. I think we rocked. So, you know, Jim Folley is the CEO of Forward and he's Chris Wally's cousin.

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Speaker 2

24:02

No way.

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Speaker 3

24:03

Yeah, wow That's crazy.

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Speaker 2

24:05

Yeah, that's crazy,

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Speaker 3

24:07

and they look I mean they look related

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Speaker 2

24:14

Yeah, there there should be a movie Yeah, I just you got to get someone good that doesn't fuck it up. Someone doesn't.

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Speaker 3

24:22

Well, I mean, the thing is, writers are just disconnected from manufacturing. They just never see it. So.

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Speaker 3

24:29

Right. And I guess you have to try to create some narrative arc. I mean, there are some shows like How It's Made type of thing, but they're pretty niche. But I know I'm by some of a broken record here, but I can't emphasize enough that it is insanely difficult to manufacture

S2

Speaker 2

24:53

Make sense.

S3

Speaker 3

24:54

Yeah.

S2

Speaker 2

24:54

Well it particularly makes sense when something that novel something is But ultimately cool as fuck

S3

Speaker 3

25:03

Yeah

S2

Speaker 2

25:05

What has it been like you've You've owned X for a year now.

S3

Speaker 3

25:09

Oh, yeah.

S2

Speaker 2

25:11

Do you ever wake up in the middle of the night and have a dream that you didn't do it? And your life is infinitely easier?

S3

Speaker 3

25:19

Well, it's certainly a recipe for trouble, I suppose, or contention.

S2

Speaker 2

25:27

What was it ultimately that led you to make the decision to do it?

S3

Speaker 3

25:37

I mean, this is going to sound somewhat melodramatic, but I was worried about that it was having a corrosive effect on civilization, that it was just having a bad impact. And I think part of it is that it's where it was located, which is downtown San Francisco. And while I think San Francisco's a beautiful city and which should really fight hard to kind of right the ship of San Francisco, if you've walked around downtown San Francisco, right near the ex-FKA Twitter headquarters, It's a zombie apocalypse.

S3

Speaker 3

26:18

I Mean, it's rough. Have you ever been been in that area?

S2

Speaker 2

26:22

Not lately.

S3

Speaker 3

26:22

No, I've heard it's crazy.

S2

Speaker 2

26:25

I've heard it's crazy I've heard you you really can't believe it until you actually go there.

S3

Speaker 3

26:29

You can't believe it until you go there So now you have to say well what philosophy led to that outcome And that philosophy was being piped to Earth. So, you know, a philosophy that would be ordinarily quite niche and geographically constrained so that sort of the fallout area would be limited, whereas effectively given an information weapon, an information technology weapon to propagate what is essentially a mind virus to the rest of Earth. And the outcome of that mind virus is very clear if you walk around the streets of downtown San Francisco.

S3

Speaker 3

27:10

It is the end of civilization.

S2

Speaker 2

27:13

And it's not just propagating the mind virus, but suppressing any opposing viewpoints.

S3

Speaker 3

27:19

Yes. Well, in order for the virus to propagate it must suppress opposing for your points Because

S2

Speaker 2

27:25

it doesn't stand up to scrutiny

S3

Speaker 3

27:27

correct Yeah, I mean you I mean you've you've you've you've felt the the virus. Yeah Yeah, people try to cancel you so many times.

S2

Speaker 2

27:37

Yeah, it's fascinating. Yeah. I don't think you're melodramatic at all.

S2

Speaker 2

27:42

I think it's a, I mean, I don't want to be melodramatic, but it's almost like a death

S1

Speaker 1

27:48

cult.

S3

Speaker 3

27:48

It's a death cult. No, no, that is exactly right. It's essentially the extinctionists.

S3

Speaker 3

27:57

Like, in the limit, it is that they're propagating the extinction of humanity and civilization. And there's some people who are, like most of the time it's implicit, they don't, but sometimes it's explicit. Like there was a guy on the front page of the New York Times who literally has the thing called the extinctionist movement and he was quoted on the front page in the New York Times as saying There are 8 billion people in the world, but it would be better if there were none And I'm like well buddy you can start with yourself.

S2

Speaker 2

28:27

Yeah Does he have friends? That's what always fascinating Well, here he is that guy He looks like you not long for this earth. I mean, he's not young.

S2

Speaker 2

28:38

Voluntary human extinction movement. That's hilarious. Spent... I'd like to party with that dude.

S3

Speaker 3

28:44

I would

S2

Speaker 2

28:44

just like to like...

S3

Speaker 3

28:45

That's the death cult. That's an explicit version of the death cult. Maybe live long and

S2

Speaker 2

28:51

die out.

S3

Speaker 3

28:52

I mean, it's not... Extinction is a word he uses. Yes.

S3

Speaker 3

28:57

I mean, it's literally a self-description. That death cult was in charge of social media. Yeah, and still largely is at Google and Facebook by the way,

S2

Speaker 2

29:08

yeah

S3

Speaker 3

29:10

So I'm like, I'm not in favor of human extinction They are and they can go to hell

S2

Speaker 2

29:17

Well that guy is

S3

Speaker 3

29:19

yeah, you can go to hell

S2

Speaker 2

29:20

that guy seems silly I would like to hang out with him, though. I would like to find out what makes him tick. I bet that guy is fascinating.

S2

Speaker 2

29:27

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31:03

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S2

Speaker 2

31:32

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Speaker 2

31:47

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Speaker 2

32:21

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Speaker 2

32:37

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S3

Speaker 3

32:46

Well, if

S2

Speaker 2

32:46

you get them alone for a few days

S3

Speaker 3

32:48

and dig in. I'm in favor of, I'm pro-environment, but in the limit, if you take environmentalism to an extreme, you start to view humanity as a plague on the surface of the earth, like a mold or something. Right.

S3

Speaker 3

33:07

But this is actually false. The earth could take probably 10 times the current civilization. The population could be, you could 10x the population without destroying the rainforest. So the environmental movement, and I'm an environmentalist, has gone too far.

S3

Speaker 3

33:23

They've gone way too far. You know, if you start thinking that humans are bad, then the natural conclusion is humans should die out. Now, I'm headed to an AI safety, international sort of AI safety conference, later tonight, leaving in about 3 hours. And I meet with the British Prime Minister and a number of other people.

S3

Speaker 3

33:49

So you have to say, how could AI go wrong? Well, if AI gets programmed by the extinctionists, its utility function will be the extinction of humanity. Yeah, clearly.

S2

Speaker 2

34:04

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, particularly

S3

Speaker 3

34:06

if- They won't even think it's bad, like that guy.

S2

Speaker 2

34:10

Yeah. If you let AI... It's messed up. There's a lot of decisions that AI would make that would be very similar to eugenics.

S2

Speaker 2

34:17

I mean there would be some radical changes in what people are allowed to and not allowed to do that allow them to survive that may be detrimental in terms of pollution and things like that, but it may be the only solution they have in their area. I mean, maybe AI would come up with some sort of a different structure in terms of how they get power and resources, but...

S3

Speaker 3

34:38

There's no shortage of power. Like we talked about solar-powerful cars, the issue is that cars just have a very low service area. But you could actually power the entire United States with a hundred miles by a hundred miles of solar

S1

Speaker 1

34:53

Really?

S3

Speaker 3

34:53

Yes

S2

Speaker 2

34:55

So you can just pick some dead spot that you fly over?

S3

Speaker 3

34:57

Oh, which they owe plenty.

S2

Speaker 2

34:58

Cover that sucker up with solar panels and charge the whole country.

S3

Speaker 3

35:02

Absolutely. 24-7. We need batteries, but yes.

S1

Speaker 1

35:05

Yeah. Wow. Yeah, it's

S3

Speaker 3

35:07

not hard. I mean, meaning it's like it's very feasible. In fact, I mean, the sun is converting over 4 million tons of mass to energy every second.

S3

Speaker 3

35:19

And it's no maintenance. That thing just works. That we have a giant fusion reactor in the sky. That is the sun.

S3

Speaker 3

35:27

In fact, people are like, someone's like, what about in a radiation? I'm like, the sun is literally a nuclear reactor in the sky. Are you scared to go in daylight?

S2

Speaker 2

35:38

Rocks of radiation. Yes. The radiation risk is greatly overestimated.

S2

Speaker 2

35:46

I always wonder why radiation is always bad in real life, but always awesome in comic books

S3

Speaker 3

35:52

Yeah, right. We get been by radioactive spider and suddenly you have spider abilities

S2

Speaker 2

35:56

get hit with gamma rays You've come the whole if you've

S3

Speaker 3

35:58

read active cockroach if you like the cockroach man.

S2

Speaker 2

36:00

Yeah Be 1 of the X men.

S3

Speaker 3

36:03

Yeah. Yeah, it's a I think the The problem is like most people don't understand what radiation is And so it just sounds like a mysterious, invisible death ray.

S2

Speaker 2

36:14

Well, it's almost like drugs. We think of it, we put a blanket over it. It's all 1 thing.

S2

Speaker 2

36:20

Radiation is Chernobyl. I

S3

Speaker 3

36:23

mean, the thing is You can actually tour Chernobyl right now

S2

Speaker 2

36:27

Yes, you can actually go to where the melt well,

S3

Speaker 3

36:30

I mean this war zone But apart from that the issue is, you know more getting shot than it is. You don't have a radiation risk I mean the problem is like I think when people don't understand what radiation is, they just, they can't see it, they can't feel it, they think, well, I could just die at any moment like from a magic death ray right you know I've had people say like oh the radiation from their phone is gonna hurt them or they're scared of the microwave I'm like we say radiation do you mean particles of photons and if you mean photons what wavelength and then like I don't know what you mean. They don't know anything about that.

S2

Speaker 2

37:05

Right. They're afraid of the term. It's because of 3 Mile Island and Fukushima. We've been

S3

Speaker 3

37:11

told. Yeah, but nobody died of radiation from Fukushima. Not 1 person. True.

S3

Speaker 3

37:15

In fact, But I was asked by people in California, like when Fukushima happened, whether radiation would get to California. I'm like, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. And so, actually to help support Japan, I flew to Fukushima and ate locally grown vegetables on TV. And I'm still

S1

Speaker 1

37:34

alive. I have

S2

Speaker 2

37:35

a friend, he's very smart, but he won't eat fish out of the Pacific because he's worried about the radiation from Fukushima.

S3

Speaker 3

37:42

Yeah, that's irrational. There is no physics substance to that, I would say, at all. Not even slightly.

S2

Speaker 2

37:50

I'm gonna send him this clip.

S3

Speaker 3

37:52

Yes. Go back

S2

Speaker 2

37:52

to the sushi place, bro.

S3

Speaker 3

37:54

No, you should be, if you eat too much tuna, you're gonna have mercury. Yes, correct. Mercury Poisoning from tuna is a real thing

S1

Speaker 1

38:02

you can

S2

Speaker 2

38:02

get arsenic from sardines to found that out the hard way really yeah Hey, too many saw dee. Yeah, I got my blood work done and the doctor says you have arsenic in your blood and I go with someone poisoning me goes. That's very very low It's like you is your girlfriend.

S2

Speaker 2

38:16

I agree

S1

Speaker 1

38:20

And

S2

Speaker 2

38:20

I said yeah, I eat like 3 cans of sardines a night that's a lot of sardines man. I love sardines.

S3

Speaker 3

38:25

Oh, yeah Yeah, it's I love them

S2

Speaker 2

38:30

I've always loved sardines.

S3

Speaker 3

38:32

Okay,

S2

Speaker 2

38:32

I love them But

S3

Speaker 3

38:33

turns out like you can't eat too much of it because they Yeah,

S2

Speaker 2

38:36

they're not good for you.

S3

Speaker 3

38:36

Okay. Yeah.

S1

Speaker 1

38:37

Yeah, I

S3

Speaker 3

38:37

mean a little sardines once in a while, but not 3 cans a night Well

S2

Speaker 2

38:40

for me, it's like I come home late from the comedy club, but I want something easy to eat No, I don't want to open

S3

Speaker 3

38:44

a can of sardines food.

S2

Speaker 2

38:45

So I open up a few cans of sardines. Oh, you know watch a little TV eat a few cans And then I stopped doing it and I got my blood worked on a couple months later was gone

S3

Speaker 3

38:56

Yeah, so why I think I think I'm to be is really really pep up a Caesar salad.

S2

Speaker 2

39:01

Yeah, they do Fan of anchovies as well. Yeah, 1 of my favorite pizzas ever is pineapple and anchovy. Double pineapple, double anchovy.

S2

Speaker 2

39:10

It's amazing. It's the sweet and the salty, and then you got the tomato sauce and the cheese.

S1

Speaker 1

39:16

It's my favorite pizza.

S3

Speaker 3

39:17

It's very good. I mean, as a kid, I was very much against Hawaiian pizza, and as an adult, I like it. Hawaiian's good,

S2

Speaker 2

39:25

but I'm telling you, anchovies and pineapple is the bomb diggity.

S3

Speaker 3

39:29

That's the bomb diggity. Okay, I'll give it a shot.

S2

Speaker 2

39:31

That's the bomb digger.

S3

Speaker 3

39:32

Wait can we order some right now? Is that feasible?

S2

Speaker 2

39:35

I bet we could.

S3

Speaker 3

39:36

Okay, let's try it. That'd be sick. Yeah

S2

Speaker 2

39:41

Have Jeff order a very large pizza with double pineapple double anchovies.

S3

Speaker 3

39:47

Great. Fantastic. I'm hungry No time like the present, enjoy life.

S2

Speaker 2

39:56

Well, there's gotta be a good spot around here. Tell them we'll find a good spot and tell them it's for us. They'll cook it up.

S2

Speaker 2

40:02

If they

S1

Speaker 1

40:02

won't, if they won't.

S2

Speaker 2

40:04

Don't just

S3

Speaker 3

40:05

on the pizza. Tell them we'll mention

S2

Speaker 2

40:06

their name. Tell them we'll mention their name on the podcast.

S3

Speaker 3

40:12

Don't tell them it's us.

S1

Speaker 1

40:13

Tell them it's us. Fuck it.

S2

Speaker 2

40:15

If they're going to close, tell them we'll mention their name.

S3

Speaker 3

40:18

What is this salty sauce that's so mysterious?

S2

Speaker 2

40:22

Oh no. Right, don't tell them it's us.

S3

Speaker 3

40:25

Good call.

S2

Speaker 2

40:26

Yeah, don't tell them it's us. Make sure you don't buy it from any liberals. What is this salty, tangy substance on there?

S2

Speaker 2

40:31

Don't buy it from East Austin. Don't buy it from anyone who still wears a mask They're still masked up it's wild yeah

S3

Speaker 3

40:44

once in a while I see some paranoid I'm like on the street

S2

Speaker 2

40:47

Yeah, I saw a guy on the street the other day just walking around with a mask on. I'm like, okay, buddy, you look like you're about 28 years old. Yeah.

S2

Speaker 2

40:54

I think you're

S3

Speaker 3

40:55

gonna be okay.

S2

Speaker 2

40:55

Be okay, yeah. You're probably not gonna be okay breathing that fucking same air in that mask and all the bacteria spitting out. Yeah.

S2

Speaker 2

41:02

It's attaching to that

S3

Speaker 3

41:03

cloth. Yeah. Masks are not like some magic health shield. I mean, there are times where a mask is warranted, like if a surgeon is operating on you or whatever, then you know what the surgeon is spitting in your wound.

S3

Speaker 3

41:19

But most of the time, a mask is not good for you. If you

S2

Speaker 2

41:22

can breathe out of it that means you can you're breathing in that means you're also exhaling So like how much is it filtering like what is it?

S3

Speaker 3

41:33

It's like I'd say like a mask is much like sort of a shield in battle in that yeah, you know, it'll help Protect you a little bit from arrows and stuff, but it's not doesn't make you arrow proof We're just talking about shooting arrows.

S2

Speaker 2

41:46

That's right. There's

S3

Speaker 3

41:49

when masks are warranted, but most of the time it's actually counterproductive.

S2

Speaker 2

41:53

Well, that was 1 of the things about the old Twitter, was the propaganda and the adherence to whatever the CDC was saying and the dismissing of legitimate scientists, guys like Jay

S3

Speaker 3

42:13

Bhattachara from Stanford

S1

Speaker 1

42:13

and

S2

Speaker 2

42:13

legit guys. And they were suppressing them and even banning them. They banned Alex Berenson.

S2

Speaker 2

42:18

I mean, it was wild. They banned Alex for essentially reading peer-reviewed papers.

S3

Speaker 3

42:25

Yeah. No, I mean, all Twitter was basically an arm

S2

Speaker 2

42:29

of the government. Yeah. So...

S2

Speaker 2

42:31

Was that shocking? Like, what was that like? To me, that was the most bizarre was the Twitter files. When you let Schellenberger and Matt Taibbi and all those guys get in the Twitter, and the response where Matt Taibbi gets audited, which is just wild.

S2

Speaker 2

42:46

I mean, it's just so blatant and so in your face.

S3

Speaker 3

42:49

Yeah, it's weird. No, I mean, the degree to which, and by the way, Jack didn't really know this, but the degree to which Twitter was simply an arm of the government was not well understood by the public. And it was there was no it was whatever the official government it was like Pravda basically.

S3

Speaker 3

43:11

You know it's a state publication is the way to think of all Twitter. It's a state publication.

S2

Speaker 2

43:17

And was the justification from their perspective that they are progressive liberals, they have the right intentions, it's important that they stay in power, the progressive liberals stay in government and power because this is their...

S3

Speaker 3

43:33

There was basically oppression of any views that would even, I would say, be considered middle of the road. But certainly anything on the right. I'm not talking about far right.

S3

Speaker 3

43:48

I'm just talking mildly right. Republicans were suppressed at 10 times the rate of Democrats. Now, that's because old Twitter was fundamentally controlled by the far left. It was completely controlled by the far left.

S3

Speaker 3

44:03

And that's why I say San Francisco-Berkeley is a niche ideology. It's hard to say, is there a place that's more far left than San Francisco-Berkeley?

S2

Speaker 2

44:13

Maybe Portland.

S3

Speaker 3

44:14

Maybe Portland. But it's a con. Right there.

S3

Speaker 3

44:17

Yeah, it's close to places, are the most far left places in America. Yes. So from their standpoint, everything is to the right. Including moderates.

S3

Speaker 3

44:31

Right, right. So, but now, if you internalize a far left position, everything seems wrong to you that is not far left. Right. And so they naturally oppressed anything that didn't agree with their views.

S3

Speaker 3

44:49

That's why I say that it was an accidental far left information weapon. It's like Silicon Valley attracts the smartest engineers, the smartest sort of technologists and programmers from around the world. They created an information weapon that was then harnessed by the far left who could not themselves create the weapon but happened to be co-located where the technologists were.

S2

Speaker 2

45:17

It happened to be aligned politically with the people that possessed it.

S3

Speaker 3

45:28

The technologists generally are moderate, maybe

S1

Speaker 1

45:29

moderate left, but they're not

S3

Speaker 3

45:29

far left. That's why I say San Francisco, Berkeley, it doesn't even extend to South San Francisco or even to Palo Alto. So SF Berkeley is the most far left, perhaps in a competition with Portland, but I'd say SF Berkeley is more far left even than Portland.

S3

Speaker 3

45:48

Like literally in America, we're talking about an area that's maybe a 10 mile radius. And so normally the effects, the negative effects of a far left ideology that would be geographically limited to a 10-mile radius. Any bad effects of that ideology would be geographically constrained under normal circumstances and have been in the past. But when you have basically a technological megaphone, which was Twitter and social media in general, suddenly the far left are handed a megaphone to Earth, an incredibly powerful technology weapon that they themselves could not create, but they happen to be co-located with the technologists who created it by accident.

S2

Speaker 2

46:45

Is it shocking that more people don't understand how dangerous that is?

S3

Speaker 3

46:51

Think some people understand Some people do some people understand So I mean from the standpoint of some people who used to be a Twitter, the people are

S2

Speaker 2

47:02

like, well, it's a big shift to

S3

Speaker 3

47:03

the right. That is correct. It is a shift to the right because everything is to the right if you're far left.

S3

Speaker 3

47:08

Everything is to the right. But how many far left people have actually been suspended or banned from Twitter now, X? 0. So it's really just moved to the center but from the perspective of the far left it has moved to the right.

S3

Speaker 3

47:26

He's like everything's relative.

S2

Speaker 2

47:32

The difference in moderation.

S3

Speaker 3

47:33

I should say it propagated that fallout philosophy not just to America, but to everywhere on earth.

S2

Speaker 2

47:40

Right. Yeah. Yeah. And with the same level of suppression in other countries as well?

S2

Speaker 2

47:45

Yes. But the Taliban is on Twitter, right?

S3

Speaker 3

47:52

Like I always think of like, hey Mr. Taliban, tell him you're banana.

S2

Speaker 2

48:00

I mean, but there's definitely some people on Twitter that are daylight coming. I want to go

S3

Speaker 3

48:07

Yeah, so the point at the point is I that I from my standpoint That is that X FK Twitter should represent the sort of collective consciousness of humanity. So now that means that there are going to be views on there that you don't like or disagree with. But that's humanity.

S3

Speaker 3

48:38

So are you going to exclude them or not? Now, I mean, if somebody, you know, breaks the law, then the account is suspended. I mean, if they actively advocate murder, then the account is suspended. We do have what we call like the kind of United Nations exclusion rule which is that you can have say the Ayatollah who you know would prefer that Israel didn't exist for example.

S3

Speaker 3

49:10

But he's allowed to go to the UN building in New York. And in fact, generally, officials from Iran do, in fact, go to the UN building in New York, even though they are a heavily sanctioned country. So I think that there's merit to having, Just like there's some merit to the UN, 1 can disagree with the UN, and I think we shouldn't have a world government that we bow down to, but in fact that's risky for civilization. But I think you do want to have the leaders of countries represented on social media.

S3

Speaker 3

49:47

You want to hear what they have to say, even if what they say is terrible.

S2

Speaker 2

49:51

I think that is true across the board. I think 1 of the things you just said that's very important is that's humanity.

S1

Speaker 1

49:57

And I

S2

Speaker 2

49:57

think it's important that a social media platform, especially the biggest 1, represents humanity. So we understand what we're talking about. Because if we have this distorted idea of what people think and want and need because everyone only exists inside this ideological bubble, and anything outside of that bubble gets censored, then that changes, literally changes the tone of the entire country.

S2

Speaker 2

50:22

Changes what people think is okay and not okay, makes people feel differently. It's not humanity, it's different. It's a very forced version of humanity.

S3

Speaker 3

50:32

Yes, absolutely. So, I mean, the whole point of free speech, the only free speech is only relevant. The First Amendment is only relevant if you allow people you don't like to say things you don't like.

S3

Speaker 3

50:50

Because if you like it, you don't need a First Amendment. So the whole point of free speech is that, frankly, even people you hate say things you hate. Because if they can say, if people you hate can say things that you hate, that means that they can't stop you from saying what you want to say. Right.

S3

Speaker 3

51:09

Which is very, very important.

S2

Speaker 2

51:10

Right. But the problem with Twitter was it was not the case. Correct. It was people that you hate couldn't say.

S3

Speaker 3

51:17

Any 1 they didn't like, they censored. Or what's called de-amplify.

S2

Speaker 2

51:22

Well, not just de-amplify, but under the behest of the government would suppress real news, which was very bizarre. So they were very aware of something being accurate and they still suppressed it because the government wanted them to suppress it.

S3

Speaker 3

51:38

I mean in my view there have been severe First Amendment violations by multiple government agencies and there should be repercussions for that.

S2

Speaker 2

51:45

And is it, do different laws apply because it's a privately owned social media company I mean what what what what laws do apply in terms of like? When you're looking at it if they got to the arguments that the leftists would use is it's a private company. They could do whatever they want.

S3

Speaker 3

52:03

Yeah, it's funny that when the shoes on the other foot, they now say the private company can't do whatever it wants.

S2

Speaker 2

52:09

Well, yeah, now they're upset.

S3

Speaker 3

52:11

No, but The government itself is not allowed to censor speech. But in my view, the government de facto did censor speech. And there should at least be a case where that is heard by the public.

S3

Speaker 3

52:29

Because if the government severely coerces a platform, it sort of coerces the press, then I think that should be a First Amendment violation.

S2

Speaker 2

52:45

Well, they can't do it with other media forms, right? They're not allowed to do it with any other media. They're not allowed to.

S3

Speaker 3

52:51

Right, if they

S1

Speaker 1

52:52

try to

S3

Speaker 3

52:52

do that with a newspaper, they're gonna get in trouble.

S2

Speaker 2

52:56

Or would they? You know, that's the question. It's like, you didn't know about the federal government, you didn't know about the intelligence agencies inside of Twitter until we found out.

S1

Speaker 1

53:06

Do you

S2

Speaker 2

53:07

think that this is ubiquitous?

S3

Speaker 3

53:09

It's absolutely all the social media companies. In fact, right now, ex-formula known as Twitter is the only 1 that is not cowtowing to the government. It's the only 1.

S3

Speaker 3

53:21

There isn't, all the others just do exactly what the government wants.

S2

Speaker 2

53:26

That is wild. Yes. What I was getting at, do you think that that's everywhere?

S2

Speaker 2

53:30

Yes. Do you think that that's CNN? Do you think that that's the New York Times? Do you think that that's the Washington Post?

S2

Speaker 2

53:36

Because if they were gonna infiltrate media,

S3

Speaker 3

53:39

if they were gonna infiltrate social media. I mean, it is weird the degree to which the media is in lockstep. Like, why is the media in lockstep?

S3

Speaker 3

53:48

And why doesn't the media question the government? They used to.

S1

Speaker 1

53:51

Why

S3

Speaker 3

53:51

don't they do that anymore? Seems weird. Something doesn't add up.

S3

Speaker 3

53:55

What do you think?

S2

Speaker 2

53:57

Well, there seems like there's a bunch of factors, right? I think 1 of the big factors is pharmaceutical drug companies allowed to advertise on television. And we're 1 of 2 countries in the world that allow that.

S3

Speaker 3

54:07

I actually agree with pharmaceutical advertising provided it is truthful. Because there could be some drug that is helpful to someone, but obviously the claims need to be accurate. So I actually think pharmaceutical advertising, if it is accurate, I think it actually, you know, play devil's advocate here, I think pharmaceutical advertising is generally accurate.

S3

Speaker 3

54:30

I think that's actually okay. Now, I should say that a lot of the censorship that we see is coming indirectly from advertisers and advertising agencies and from PR companies who want a particular viewpoint pushed or are being driven by nonprofits to push a particular... What will happen is there'll be a group of nonprofits that push advertisers to advertise or not advertise a particular platform. 1 often he has of the sort of George Soros bogeyman.

S3

Speaker 3

55:12

But I mean Soros actually, he is I believe the top contributor to the Democratic Party. The second 1 was Sam Backwood Fried. And Soros, I don't know, I mean, he had a very difficult upbringing. And in my opinion, he fundamentally hates humanity.

S3

Speaker 3

55:36

That's my opinion. Really? Yeah, I mean, well, he's doing things that erode the fabric of civilization. You know, getting DAs elected who refuse to prosecute crime.

S3

Speaker 3

55:47

That's part of the problem in San Francisco and LA and much other cities. So why would you do that?

S2

Speaker 2

55:55

Was it humanity or is it just the United States as a whole?

S3

Speaker 3

55:59

I mean, he's pushing things in other countries too. He's doing the

S2

Speaker 2

56:02

same thing.

S3

Speaker 3

56:03

Yeah. Now, George, at this point, is pretty old. I mean, he's not, you know, he's basically a Betsy now at this point. But I mean, he's very smart.

S3

Speaker 3

56:18

And he's very good at arbitrage. Famously, he shorted the British pound. That's sort of how I think he made his first money, was shorting the pound. So he's good at spotting, basically, arbitrage, like spotting value for money that other people don't see.

S3

Speaker 3

56:37

So 1 of the things he noticed was that the value for money in local races is much higher than it is in national races. The lowest value for money is a presidential race. Then next lowest value for money is a Senate race, then a Congress. Once you get to sort of city and state district attorneys, the value for money is extremely good.

S3

Speaker 3

57:01

And Soros realized that you don't actually need to change the laws, you just need to change how they're enforced. If nobody chooses to enforce the law or the laws are differentially enforced, it's like changing the laws. That's what he figured out. It's an arbitrage.

S2

Speaker 2

57:17

That this trend that people haven't pulled the brakes on this and have it reverse course?

S3

Speaker 3

57:25

They're pulling the brakes? Yeah. Yeah, pulling the brakes Right now.

S2

Speaker 2

57:31

Yeah, you are. But you might be the only

S3

Speaker 3

57:34

1. Well, I think more people should. Most people just don't wanna rock the boat. Most people are looking for acceptance from society and if there's some negative press article, they're like shattered.

S3

Speaker 3

57:51

I couldn't give it up.

S1

Speaker 1

57:54

Go

S3

Speaker 3

57:54

ahead, make my day.

S2

Speaker 2

57:58

Well it's fascinating work. If you're a high profile public figure like yourself, it's impossible to make everybody happy. So there's going to be someone who says something shitty about

S3

Speaker 3

58:10

you.

S2

Speaker 2

58:10

Somehow or another, when it's in print, does that mean more? Because other people are going to see this shitty thing?

S3

Speaker 3

58:16

Well, I guess.

S2

Speaker 2

58:16

That's where it gets odd. Because essentially, an article in the New York Times is just a single person's opinion and whatever editor gets involved.

S3

Speaker 3

58:26

There's a lot of people will read that I mean less people these days. But I

S1

Speaker 1

58:30

think people know that now.

S2

Speaker 2

58:33

I have to say, I find the

S3

Speaker 3

58:34

New York Times these days to be hard to read.

S2

Speaker 2

58:37

Well, unfortunately, they make some grave errors. Like that Hamas bombing the... Thomas?

S2

Speaker 2

58:45

No. The Israeli bombing the hospital story. It's delicious. I mean, I think

S3

Speaker 3

58:54

we should cut off Chick-fil-A exports. That'll bring them to the knees right away.

S1

Speaker 1

59:00

What are you

S2

Speaker 2

59:00

going to do? Take a trip and dip it in nothing We need to do is introduce them to pineapple and anchovy pizza. I

S3

Speaker 3

59:08

hope that's coming that coming

S2

Speaker 2

59:10

Do we have a pizza name like a company?

S4

Speaker 4

59:16

Pizza Leon

S2

Speaker 2

59:17

oh that's legit. It's

S4

Speaker 4

59:18

pretty close.

S2

Speaker 2

59:18

Okay. There we go. Nice Did they give us a timeline?

S4

Speaker 4

59:22

I? Don't matter it shouldn't take too long. They're not too far away, and it's late so it shouldn't I would have been 20 minutes 30 minutes Maybe

S2

Speaker 2

59:29

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S2

Speaker 2

59:44

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