2 hours 10 minutes 28 seconds
🇬🇧 English
Speaker 1
01:00:00
Like holy shit, I, you know. I can't explain it. And I haven't really tried hard enough to try to. But something changed.
Speaker 1
01:00:11
Something happened there, yeah. Something happened to me, I was sore for about 3 or 4 months afterwards. It's like it smoked out my entire body. Yeah, that whole summer I was kind of sore.
Speaker 1
01:00:22
And yeah, and then after that, like 2 or 3 years later, that's when I won the world championships. Yeah, I mean, all the matches are, you know, you get something from people. Like, you know, you study them, you take something from them. People have an invisible crown, and he had 1, and I think I took it from
Speaker 2
01:00:43
him. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe that was the feeling of wearing the crown.
Speaker 2
01:00:48
Yeah, maybe. What about all the trash talk? How much of that did you learn? Does that come naturally to you?
Speaker 2
01:00:55
You're 1 of the most charismatic, fun, I mean, there's always like respect behind it. I would say to me, and I'm a fan of a lot of sports, you're 1 of the greatest trash talkers in all of sports that I've ever seen because you're able to talk shit, but there's so much love and respect behind it. It's just masterful. But you also get into people's heads in the moment.
Speaker 2
01:01:17
It's beautiful to watch, because it really gets to some people. So where does that come from?
Speaker 1
01:01:23
It's a powerful weapon, right? Yeah. Your voice is a powerful, powerful weapon.
Speaker 1
01:01:28
And it's underutilized by so many athletes, because they think that it's not sportsmanlike or something like that. But the truth is, I mean, you can be a weak person, but with your voice you can influence and change any number of things. And the same thing happens in a fight between 2 people. If you can just be a never ending flow of negative encouragement to someone or suggestion, anything can happen.
Speaker 1
01:02:05
It's a tool. And when you're fighting a person, you're not just fighting them, you're fighting everyone who's watching, you're fighting the crowd, the referees, and to get in the most ideal positions, situations, you need to use your voice,
Speaker 2
01:02:27
yeah. Yeah, and there's, for people who haven't seen, I definitely recommend you watch a bunch of arm wrestling matches, because there's a crowd really gets into it. And it feels like there's a really intimate connection with the crowd, I suppose, because the crowd is allowed to be very close to you. It's just- I love it.
Speaker 1
01:02:45
I want the crowd like right up on me.
Speaker 2
01:02:47
Yeah. Yeah. So sometimes,
Speaker 1
01:02:52
oh yeah.
Speaker 2
01:02:53
Oh, So who are you, whenever you talk to somebody, you literally pick somebody from the crowd?
Speaker 1
01:02:58
Oh yeah, oh yeah. I'll start fucking off his fans and I'll start talking to their wives or whatever. There's Jody.
Speaker 1
01:03:12
She's pretty dangerous to listen to also. But yeah, 1 of his buddies, Mike Solaris, who's, you know, really good arm wrestler was talking, was cheering for him. So I started to go after him.
Speaker 2
01:03:25
Yeah. Yeah. Smiling the whole time.
Speaker 1
01:03:27
Yeah, it's fun, right?
Speaker 2
01:03:29
It's fun. It's fun to listen to, but it's also, what's fun is how much it actually affects some of the people you're facing. They get frustrated.
Speaker 2
01:03:38
It's great to see.
Speaker 1
01:03:38
Well, you have to fight, right? Like a lot of people think things will be given to them. And the thing that I've always believed from the time I was very young, like I was convinced that our inevitable death was gonna come from aliens, right?
Speaker 1
01:03:57
Like some super aggressive, super violent species was gonna come and smoke us all. You know, and I'm like, I'm not like that. I'm like, but as soon as 1 person is, then you're forced to have to accept it as reality, right? So I like to fight for every single thing.
Speaker 1
01:04:18
I like to try and be more and more aggressive. And if someone matches me, that's when I can use my endurance. And if they don't, then I have the tactical advantage. So that's kind of my balance point.
Speaker 2
01:04:29
And then, by the way, You also yell at the ref. I mean, the games, there's like levels to this game. But the feeling sometimes when people get frustrated is like, okay, this person's cheating.
Speaker 2
01:04:40
Or like, you're trying to get a good grip before it goes. And I think some of the frustration in combination with the trash talk is, well, this person is cheating, but everybody is like kind of trying to cheat, get an edge within the rules.
Speaker 1
01:04:58
Yeah, so I try and just ramp it, ramp it, ramp it. But everybody's different. I've learned how to play the game based off of the tools that I have physically.
Speaker 1
01:05:11
And for me, this works because my genetic makeup is more of a persistence hunter, right? So like I need to extend things and that works well for me. You know, if I was more explosive, I probably wouldn't have the same strategies, yeah.
Speaker 2
01:05:33
By the way, for people who are watching, you're wearing a No Limits hoodie, which
Speaker 1
01:05:38
is
Speaker 2
01:05:38
1 of your nicknames.
Speaker 1
01:05:40
I don't wash this thing too much. It's my bacterial shield to the world, yeah.
Speaker 2
01:05:47
Awesome, so you mentioned Jodi, She's often in your corner and does perhaps more trash talking than even you. So, I mean, if we could step away, she's an incredible human being. As a fan, it's fun to watch the 2 of you, both when you're arm wrestling and just as people.
Speaker 2
01:06:07
You just see so much, I don't know, kindness and love radiating from the 2 of you whenever you're trash talking or talking about just random things or just talking about life, it's just a beautiful thing to watch. And thank you for sharing that with the world, but maybe can you, she paid me to ask you this, but What are the things you love about Jodi, your wife, Jodi Larratt? What are the ways she's affected your life?
Speaker 1
01:06:38
Yeah, Jodi and I go way back, right? We were in high school together. The thing that I admire most in people is, is bravery.
Speaker 1
01:06:53
It's to me, it's the most admirable quality and Jodi always has inspired me. Cause she's such a fighter. You know, if, if she believes that something's true, she'll, she just, she does not back down. She will, she will not.
Speaker 1
01:07:11
And you can not to say that she's can't change her mind Cause she can, but while she is convicted, she will, she'll not stop fighting. She's pulled me out of the fire repeatedly. We've, we've lived through so many things. I'm very lucky.
Speaker 2
01:07:29
How does she made you a better arm wrestler? She's fed me. Yeah, I could see your videos of your house basically coming apart when she's not there.
Speaker 1
01:07:42
Yeah, without Jodi, I'm on the street, living in a tent and yeah. Down by the river. Eating dog food, yeah.
Speaker 2
01:07:53
Bravery. Yeah. What about love? How has love made you stronger?
Speaker 2
01:07:57
Now we're gonna make Devin uncomfortable.
Speaker 1
01:08:01
Love is difficult to accept. Love is 1 of those things that, you know, a lot of times you don't feel worthy of it, you know? And so it's hard sometimes to accept someone's love.
Speaker 1
01:08:15
And someone who really loves you, they'll love you even when you don't, you know. And here you go, you're gonna make me cry, Alex. Yeah, Jodi and I have been through so much. And she's shown me how, you know, she's supported me just repeatedly, repeatedly.
Speaker 2
01:08:37
Some of that is loyalty and patience and perseverance and all those things. That's like when love really shows itself. Yeah.
Speaker 2
01:08:46
Sticking through together for years, even when you're through the shitty times.
Speaker 1
01:08:52
Love and faith are powerful forces in this universe. Without them, we can descend into darkness very quickly. As a world, even between people, when love and faith is destroyed, then we fall apart, you know.
Speaker 1
01:09:11
And I've been graced by the love that Jodi's given me. You know, it's allowed me to continue to build, you know, when you have love between people, then you build together. I love, I love my family. I love Canada.
Speaker 1
01:09:27
I love the arm wrestling community. I have a love for what we're trying to achieve as a human species, you know? And, you know, when that falls apart, we don't have much. Yeah, just with my boy there, yeah.
Speaker 1
01:09:42
Yeah,
Speaker 2
01:09:45
You also mentioned you were in a, you once had a job where your death was a real possibility. So you were in the Canadian Special Forces. What did you take away from that experience?
Speaker 2
01:10:01
That time
Speaker 1
01:10:01
in your life? Yeah, it was such a great life. Really, really loved it.
Speaker 1
01:10:07
Honestly, I never wanted to leave. I never thought I would leave. I thought I'd be there my whole life. Real honor to get to serve.
Speaker 2
01:10:18
What did you get to do? What was the things you loved craftsmanship wise, like fun things you get to do, learn and challenge yourself? And you mentioned sort of honor in terms of the serving part.
Speaker 1
01:10:33
Yeah, My favorite thing about serving in the special forces was for sure the people that I worked with. That's probably the first thing I could say. You know, I never, I always felt like totally comfortable and, and putting my life in the other guy's hands, I was so happy to be in a place where I felt I could follow.
Speaker 1
01:10:58
Like didn't matter. Like I knew that the people ahead of me were, were incredible. I knew the people beside me were incredible. So just having that faith in your team, it's very special.
Speaker 1
01:11:10
And to know that they're for there for a reason that has nothing to do with money, you know, they're, and that's what kind of brings everybody together is you're there for a higher purpose. And in terms of being an adrenaline junkie, there's nothing like it. I mean, there's nothing like, you know, going out at night and fighting. And when I say fighting, like my whole life I wanted to fight.
Speaker 1
01:11:36
And to me, there's a lot of – and look, I've said this in the past and I think it's been a personal failure of mine because I've said things like it's the highest level that you can do. I don't believe that to be true anymore. But at the time, I thought it was the best way I could express my drives that I had, to be a fighter.
Speaker 2
01:12:00
So your sense in the past, and maybe in part now, is that fighting is when humans get a chance to express themselves deeply. Like that mix of the bravery, the integrity, whatever that is that makes us human, that human spirit can really shine. And I don't believe that anymore.
Speaker 1
01:12:22
I believe that you can do that in any field, in any discipline. You know, if you go hard enough, it all kind of starts to feel the same. But at the time, that expression to me was really, really awesome.
Speaker 1
01:12:37
I loved, I loved close quarter battle. That was my favorite thing. That's really the whole reason I was there.
Speaker 2
01:12:44
Can you describe close quarter battle?
Speaker 1
01:12:46
Close quarter battle is team fighting. So, and it can look a lot of different ways, but basically it's ground troops doing some kind of a mission. And it's the orchestrated movement that is the skill, the orchestrated movement and the drills done quickly and accurately.
Speaker 1
01:13:08
It's, it's, it's very difficult.
Speaker 2
01:13:10
With communication?
Speaker 1
01:13:11
With communication.
Speaker 2
01:13:12
Yeah. So, so you're, it's basically cooperating together, communicating. Yeah. There's some strategy, there's some adapting to the changing environment.
Speaker 1
01:13:20
And the more the team works together, the less communication there is. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1
01:13:26
And that's an amazing thing to do, to be part of a machine, well, machine, a team of people who can fight together like that. I think it's, we're really designed to do it. Like, as good as we can fight as individuals, the thing that makes us really good is our ability to fight as a team,
Speaker 2
01:13:46
yeah. Yeah, that's 1 of the things that makes us really human is that collective intelligence
Speaker 1
01:13:51
and
Speaker 2
01:13:51
the social aspect. And fighting is the highest of stakes. So that social interaction under the highest of stakes really does bring out something that's deeply human.
Speaker 2
01:14:06
I mean, war in general brings out something deeply human. It's just, it's, I mean, obvious to say that it's tragic that it results in so much loss of life and well-being. Let me, if it's okay for a brief moment to take us back to arm wrestling. We did this like offline, we talked about, you gave me some advice about arm wrestling, but maybe do a high level overview of like the different styles and strategies that we've talked about.
Speaker 2
01:14:43
We talked about the importance of strength and power, but is there like offensive, defensive styles? Is there, we mentioned King's move. What would you classify your style as? It's nice for people that don't know, maybe even zoom back out.
Speaker 2
01:15:00
So Arm wrestling is a sport where 2 people have to, when we talk about strictly the sport, put their elbow on a particular pad, means they have to keep that elbow on that pad, and they win when the back of 1 of their hands crosses some kind of, or basically touches the table. And when you actually lock up, you do so, depending on the organization, without straps, meaning there's just you, agree, it's like mutual agreement that you're going to clasp your hands in a way that's fair, and there's a referee that helps ensure that it's fair, but of course there's these little games going on, And then when you actually go all out with this battle, if there's no straps, you can slip out. So often you'll put the straps, which means you're, it's like marriage. You're committed.
Speaker 2
01:16:01
For, like, somebody will have to lose, essentially. There's no pulling out. So, okay, So that's sort of the battle. Within that, what are the different styles that you can speak to that people that don't know arm wrestling could understand?
Speaker 1
01:16:17
Yeah, we can start to kind of just dance around the subject a bit. I'd say there's a lot of different types. There's specialists and there's kind of blenders and people who are very versatile.
Speaker 1
01:16:34
A lot of guys win world championships on 1 singular move. They get just extremely crisp at, say, a hook or a top roll, and their style is very kind of focused. And you'll see it with a lot of athletes like kind of a talk guy, but guy who's very active, I called Jerry Catarat. Okay, as soon as you think Jerry Catarat, he's got a very unique style, he's got a flop wrist press, okay.
Speaker 1
01:17:01
So most of his technique is built around this 1 system.
Speaker 2
01:17:04
Flop wrist means you're, what it sounds like. Yeah. So your wrist is flopped, so
Speaker 1
01:17:10
it looks like you're losing.
Speaker 2
01:17:12
So he is pushing from a losing position.
Speaker 1
01:17:15
No, he will be offensive. So he will be in a press so offensively. So he'll give his hand away so that he can get his shoulder behind it properly.
Speaker 2
01:17:24
So he doesn't, wow. Right. So you can press, press means put like push.
Speaker 2
01:17:31
Push. Yeah. Without having that hook position.
Speaker 1
01:17:36
Right. Which is what most people are always looking for. And Jerry's looking for it as well. And then, so example, there's another 1.
Speaker 1
01:17:43
There's another specialist, Matt Mask.
Speaker 2
01:17:45
Yeah.
Speaker 1
01:17:45
He's a top roller, right? He basically that's his, that's his great move is a top role and his other weapons aren't nearly as powerful. Just incredible top role.
Speaker 1
01:17:57
And then you have a lot of athletes that are more blended. Okay. They have a lot of good options. I think that I probably fall more into that category.
Speaker 1
01:18:07
You have people who are more speed guys. Okay. So they try and do very little, I'd call it attrition, right? So a lot of people are very willing to trade energy, right?
Speaker 1
01:18:21
Cause they have faith that their, their gas tank or their pool eventually will tire the other personnel. So anytime there's a trade, they'll trade. Whereas, you know, a guy like Travis Bajan, you know, he was very, very well known as being extremely explosive, right? But if the match stops, typically he's gonna lose.
Speaker 1
01:18:43
All right, so based off of your genetics, your hands, you know, there's a lot of ways to skin it.
Speaker 2
01:18:50
So I think you said something like, you're a 20 second guy. That's right, I'm
Speaker 1
01:18:58
a 20 second guy.
Speaker 2
01:19:00
So what are the seconds we're talking about? So a lot of the power people, they wanna win in the first maybe 5 seconds. Just that first push, that first press.
Speaker 2
01:19:11
Absolutely,
Speaker 1
01:19:12
right to the pad.
Speaker 2
01:19:14
And so you're trying to
Speaker 1
01:19:15
hold off that attack. Yeah. If I beat you in a second, we're not in the same world.
Speaker 1
01:19:21
Yeah. When I'm with my peer group, I will typically win 20 seconds and beyond. That's a typical win for me when I'm with a peer. Whereas other guys, when they're with their peers, they'll win in a second.
Speaker 1
01:19:37
That's how they do it. That's the way they're built. That's the way they train. Yeah, most guys at a higher level, it all starts to kind of get more and more difficult to be a specialist at the high level.
Speaker 1
01:19:51
Now, some people just have little holes in their games. It's rare to get someone who can really do all the moves.
Speaker 2
01:20:00
It's very rare. What, where would you put Lavan?
Speaker 1
01:20:06
I would not say he's a specialist. I'd say his top role is the strongest move. Top role.
Speaker 1
01:20:12
Top role is the strongest move. Yeah. And the interesting thing about the, the specialist versus the blender, there's a counter, right? Every move has a move that theoretically should be the right choice.
Speaker 1
01:20:29
So If you're a single move guy, there's going to be a guy out there who will get you. Yeah. It'll be very difficult for you to beat that guy. But like when you come to like a tournament, typically specialists do much better in tournament scenarios because their singular move can get them through a tournament very quickly and efficiently.
Speaker 1
01:20:53
Whereas you get a blender in a tournament, they typically will have longer and more difficult matches. But in supermatch format, typically blenders do better. So we offline also talked about arm sumo or freedom arm wrestling.
Speaker 2
01:21:11
I don't know how you wanna call it.
Speaker 1
01:21:12
Oh, I love freedom. Well. Ha ha Ha ha ha ha.
Speaker 2
01:21:17
Exactly, North American way. So what, so this is this idea, and I watched a few videos and it looks fun, is basically removing the restriction of having to keep your elbow on the pad and just being able to arm wrestle over the whole table. I think you've mentioned that the criticism that gets is it might be injury prone or something like that.
Speaker 2
01:21:40
So can you describe this arm sumo, freedom arm wrestling idea?
Speaker 1
01:21:45
Right, When you come to freedom arm wrestling, basically it removes the limitation of a standard arm wrestling table. Yeah. Right.
Speaker 1
01:21:52
So basically every single thing is a freedom arm wrestling table. Some are better than others. All right. So looking for that nice table where we can kind of stand apart from each other and we're anatomically, you know, in a fairly safe position.
Speaker 1
01:22:07
And the rules and freedom, the way you win is like the knuckles must either touch the tabletop or you hold it off the edge for a 3 count. Right. So this is the main way to win. Yes.
Speaker 1
01:22:20
You can foul. Like if you lift your eyeball up, it's still a foul, but you have the entire playing surface. So your elbow is no longer limited to your 7 by 7 or 7 by 9 pad. So you can move it all over the table.
Speaker 1
01:22:31
You can move your body around the table a bit too.
Speaker 2
01:22:33
And if it's a big table, your body could largely be on the table.
Speaker 1
01:22:38
Yeah, so it basically, it's like adjusting your ring size. So arm wrestling, you're fighting in a foam booth. Yeah.
Speaker 1
01:22:44
Right, so you're fighting in a field, you're fighting just bigger. So it just makes the sport bigger. Yeah, this is Japan. But even
Speaker 2
01:22:51
on a small table, even in a slightly larger phone booth, you can get a lot more fun and variety.
Speaker 1
01:22:59
It's very interesting to watch. I love it. I think it makes the sport bigger.
Speaker 1
01:23:02
I actually believe that it's the future of the sport. I really do. Because it makes
Speaker 2
01:23:07
it more accessible. Like you don't need the equipment. You can do it at a bar, all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1
01:23:11
Yeah, yeah. Less equipment requirements. Kids, Most kids start freedom.
Speaker 1
01:23:16
Like most kids arm wrestle on school desks. Yeah. Yeah, and like if you see a guy on the street, you're like, whatever. Like you can arm wrestle anywhere.
Speaker 1
01:23:23
You don't need
Speaker 2
01:23:24
to bring your table around with you. If we talked about the elite level, if somebody was interested in starting in arm wrestling or like going from just like, you know, go to the gym, you kind of lift, you've arm wrestled a few times, trying to get better at it, trying to learn. How would you advise like getting better to where you can beat your closest buddies?
Speaker 2
01:23:51
That first step.
Speaker 1
01:23:53
First step, I'd say find people. Find people, find good people. Volume.
Speaker 1
01:24:01
We'll Get with a club, get with people who know
Speaker 2
01:24:02
what they're doing, who can mentor you. And that's really cool, I realized there's a club in Austin. Yeah.
Speaker 2
01:24:08
I'm sure there's in a lot of places.
Speaker 1
01:24:09
Oh, they're everywhere. We got this app called Armbet.
Speaker 2
01:24:13
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Which is a app that helps you find other people. They're.
Speaker 1
01:24:18
Yeah, very easy. But I mean, they're all over social networks. I mean, it's kind of widespread now, but yeah, find people, find people, and it's just much easier to learn with another person and you'll get stronger that way.
Speaker 1
01:24:33
But I mean, do the lifts. If you go to the gym, just start doing the lifts. And right away, those will technically prepare you.
Speaker 2
01:24:43
What are the lifts? Can we describe what the
Speaker 1
01:24:45
base of this? I'd say if you wanna just keep it very, very simple. Let's just talk about 3.
Speaker 1
01:24:50
There's more, there's much more than 3, but like when you talk about energy allocation, these 3 lifts, in my opinion, should be like 90% of your investment is very big. These 3 lifts, and the exact percentages can, you can argue about it, but we'll, we'll start off with the cupping of the wrist, just this, this is a simple thing and do it with a cable. You can get a thicker diameter so it kind of is more out on your fingers where an armrest is gonna attack you, right? Because any good armrest is gonna attack your fingers.
Speaker 1
01:25:28
So like open hand. No, well I mean for health, yes you could. But like if you wanna be really specific, you train exactly the way you would at a table, in the position that you actually start that match.
Speaker 2
01:25:40
Yeah. And then you're just doing this kind of.
Speaker 1
01:25:43
Yes, to your center. 1 of the big misconceptions in arm wrestling is that you're aiming for that pin pad Right. No, the Sense it's the chest up bring it close to you.
Speaker 1
01:25:57
I make it come close to you, right? You see like whenever I do my exercises the the vector is always pulling straight towards me. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1
01:26:06
So just, you know, cupping close to you, the most dangerous thing that a person can do to me on an arm wrestling match is just pull me away from my body. That That's a terrible thing for me. Yeah, so that cupping, that's a massive part of the sport. So now when you think what does the cup do to the other person?
Speaker 1
01:26:28
If I cup, they get turned over, right? So this has to get really strong, this pronation. So. To fight that rolling.
Speaker 1
01:26:42
Exactly, yeah. So that's through the thumb. Yeah, oh, so
Speaker 2
01:26:48
you put, got it. You put on the thumb and you put this motion.
Speaker 1
01:26:52
Yeah. Got it. Yeah. And those 2 things, those 2 things together, this cupping and rolling, this is what's going to make the person's hand bend back.
Speaker 1
01:27:02
And once the person's hand is bent back, they're just, their whole game gets cut to pieces.
Speaker 2
01:27:07
Got
Speaker 1
01:27:07
it. They have very little good options. It's all like nasty stuff. Wow.
Speaker 1
01:27:12
Yeah. So those 2 things, that's a, that's a huge part of, of your, of your investment. Rise, always be climbing. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1
01:27:24
Yeah. Those 3 simple things, that's what I would tell anybody to spend most of their time on. If you want to become an art wrestler. So, and to use bands would be good for this?
Speaker 1
01:27:35
Bands are great because they're easy to transport. The only problem I have with bands is like, if you like to measure, you know, and if you like to be precise, bands just aren't that precise.
Speaker 2
01:27:45
Right, to have growth.
Speaker 1
01:27:46
Yeah. Yeah. Just, I mean, it's just like, you know, you know exactly what you need. The prescription is kind of, a band is kind of like, and a lot of people, myself included, I like to, I like to know exactly my outputs.
Speaker 1
01:27:59
So, So weights. So it would be like cables. Yep. Cables are nice.
Speaker 1
01:28:06
Bands are great too. III mixed the 2. Bands are, when I kind of don't need to, they're more like easy for me. I, when I train bands, bands are dangerous because the acceleration is so high on them.
Speaker 1
01:28:20
Like when you screw up with band training, the acceleration is way faster than gravity, right? So if you do something bad, it can, can make it go really much worse.
Speaker 2
01:28:29
Yeah. It's funny that you didn't mention bicep curls or...
Speaker 1
01:28:34
Well, it's a chain. It's a chain. And so,
Speaker 2
01:28:38
I mean, the idea if you focus on these 3, the other stuff catches up, like it's all involved. This whole thing is involved.
Speaker 1
01:28:45
So if you have an ax, right, the blade of the ax, that's these things, right? Like you need the pointy end of all your attacks to be awesome,
Speaker 2
01:28:59
right? If you have a super sharp ax, you could have a shitty hand. Yeah, right? Yeah, so focus on that, the point, the tip of the ax.
Speaker 1
01:29:08
Yeah, the tip of the ax is so important, right? Like if I have an awesome bicep and I can't quite use it, what's it good for, right?
Speaker 2
01:29:16
Yeah, I think a lot of the motions with the wrist that you mentioned are, just thinking about jiu-jitsu, especially in the gi, there's a lot of, I mean, there's so much importance to this, and people don't often work it explicitly. So many of the chokes require ability to, it's almost like exactly like arm wrestling. Very close.
Speaker 2
01:29:38
Because you're weak here, what's that called, flop wrist, and you're strong with the cup, yeah. And so just getting the muscle, whatever that's involved, the muscle, the turning, the pressure, because that's where also the choke comes. That little, the thing that makes you win in arm wrestling is also the thing that finishes the person when you have them grabbed.
Speaker 1
01:30:02
The strength is very similar.
Speaker 2
01:30:03
Yeah, it's fascinating actually. Of course, like you said, if you wanna be very good, you should be doing the very specific exact motion.
Speaker 1
01:30:11
Yeah, so if I was gonna do jujitsu, I'd be like working out with the gi.
Speaker 2
01:30:15
Yeah, the problem is, you know, it's difficult to construct the exact, so you have to actually go with people, and then they don't like being choked on. Right? So like it's hard to, I'm actually a big, we have these kinds of debates all the time, is I'm a big believer in drilling.
Speaker 2
01:30:38
I love doing something thousands of times. Like John Donahue, somebody I mentioned to you about, the jujitsu folks here, they're less believers in drilling. They see the value of almost like the mind of going live and exploring ideas, it's that play. You don't need to do the thing a thousand times.
Speaker 2
01:30:58
You just need to always be thinking about the little details that make you better. And then in action practicing, like developing the strength, the power, the explosive of the agility in action. So actually rolling. I don't, you know, I agree with this, but I just believe in volume more.
Speaker 1
01:31:20
Yeah, so you can accomplish it through volume. You can play a lot. Yes, exactly.
Speaker 2
01:31:25
Well, that's the, if you really wanna get it good, is you're talking about, I mean, that's why a lot of these folks are training 3 times a day. They're doing, you know, they're putting in the hours. 8 hours, 9 hours, just.
Speaker 2
01:31:39
Just. Well,
Speaker 1
01:31:40
that's tough, oh my God.
Speaker 2
01:31:41
Well, so there are a lot of them are not going hard. It's just being on the mat, some of it is just sitting there talking through ideas, watching others or teaching, explaining stuff. It's just, it's like, it's not just physical.
Speaker 2
01:31:54
It's mental too, because you're keeping in your mind. And some of the greatest, this is what they talk about, the wrestlers I've talked with, the fighters, at the top of their career, they basically, George St. Pierre is like this, another fellow Canadian, is like, he has stick figures in his head that he can't help. They're like in there, because if you train enough hours, it's just gonna be in your head and they're all going to be playing around in your head.
Speaker 2
01:32:25
And some little detail over time, it's almost like computing or something like that, and that ends up having a result even though you're not physically doing anything. It's always in there. I do have to return to diet real quick. I know we talk about pancakes.
Speaker 2
01:32:42
Let me, quite seriously, You are 1 of the, I mean, strongest athletes in the world for your sport. So you have to get big, you have to get powerful, you have to get strong. What is the right diet for you for that? Like, what do you eat?
Speaker 2
01:33:05
How often do you eat? Yeah, from the highest detail to the smallest or the things that make you happy and feel good.
Speaker 1
01:33:13
Yeah, I've experimented with every diet. I've done it all. I've been a vegan.
Speaker 1
01:33:20
I've done raw. I've eaten only meat. I've eaten balanced. I've eaten like a bodybuilder.
Speaker 1
01:33:29
You know, you name it, I've probably tried it. I don't believe that it's as important in the sport of arm wrestling as it is perhaps in other sports. I believe that, I mean, just to be very basic, I mean, if you're eating enough food, you're probably gonna be okay.
Speaker 2
01:33:52
So it's just calories. It's a lot,
Speaker 1
01:33:54
I mean, really, I mean, not to overcomplicate it, but I mean, that's where the conversation starts, are you eating enough food? And it can come in any number of ways. And I don't think it's as important as a lot of other people do.
Speaker 1
01:34:10
I'm certainly irresponsible in a lot, but the thing is, back to volume, right? Like you need to, like if you wanna be a super heavyweight, it's very different than if you wanna be a weight category guy. If you wanna be a weight category guy, I'd say that you need to be more responsible, make better choices. If you wanna be a super heavyweight, everything.
Speaker 1
01:34:35
Just- So we're watching a delicious looking omelet. So eggs, bacon, syrup, so you don't care, carbs.
Speaker 2
01:34:42
So in all the things you've tried, so I mostly eat meat now. And I landed on that. There's several things, obviously I'm not, but I do a lot of sport.
Speaker 2
01:34:53
And I was very surprised how my particular, very specific body can perform better with only meat. Why better? The sports I do, the mind matters. And so for some reason my mind is just clear.
Speaker 2
01:35:06
And I don't think, because it feels unhealthy. It just makes me feel really good. I don't think I would recommend it to anybody else. So It's interesting that that journey of just exploring can take you to figure out something about your own self.
Speaker 1
01:35:22
1 of the most interesting things that I heard about nutrition was, I heard there was a...
Speaker 2
01:35:29
Actually, Doritos,
Speaker 1
01:35:30
I forgot about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm an idiot. Now, I'd say over the last couple years, I've really gone into carbs a lot, and high glycemic carbs, and just to, I feel like it's 1 of the best things you can do if you're working out really hard.
Speaker 1
01:35:46
Just add carbs. Cheers. Exactly. But, oh, where was I?
Speaker 2
01:35:55
So you've added. Distracted. Syrup is so delicious, it's distracting.
Speaker 2
01:35:59
No, so you've added the high glycemic carbs into the mix. So those help, but that's for mass building.
Speaker 1
01:36:06
Right, so there was a study that I heard about by somebody who was trying to identify heart attacks. They did this great big study, and at the end of it, I mean, didn't matter what the people ate, the most important thing was how they felt about the food that they were eating. Yeah.
Speaker 1
01:36:24
So if you believe in the food, if you believe that it's going to do good things for you, if you allocate it the right way, it's, it's going to have a positive impact. And I try and do that no matter what it is. Like I have my foods that I think do certain things and so, you know, for me, I know that Actually, I mean, I learned about corn-fed pumps when I was overseas. I realized that I never used to eat crap, really didn't.
Speaker 1
01:36:55
I ate super clean all the time. And When I was faced with imminent death more, I would be like, okay, I'm going out tonight, let's have a couple ice cream bars. You know, like whatever. And what I realized is if I eat like an entire bag of chips or a bunch of chocolate bars, and then I go and have a workout, my workout will be incredible.
Speaker 1
01:37:27
It'll be incredible. There's something about easily processed carbohydrates that will continue to quickly get into your blood as fast as you can burn it. And there's something about that that, well, it gives you incredible blood flow,
Speaker 2
01:37:50
Yeah. And also your mind plugging in, enjoying that.
Speaker 1
01:37:53
Right.
Speaker 2
01:37:54
And then believing it works and that's how it makes it work better. Exactly. I mean, I feel that way.
Speaker 2
01:38:01
I think this is really not, this has been frustrating to me about the health culture in the United States and the studies that are done. You know, you look at like the importance of sleep, the importance of X diet, all those kinds of things. I wish incorporated into that would be your mental relationship with all these things. So for example, people that tell me, well, your sleep schedule is insane.
Speaker 2
01:38:26
Yes, perhaps, but also it's insane because I'm doing what I love and I don't see it as a problem. And I think that's really important to understand. If you're, if you sleeping crazy hours is not affecting your stress and is actually making you happier. You're drawing some kind of source of happiness and pleasure and satisfaction, like being awake when others aren't.
Speaker 2
01:38:54
It's like the Mike Tyson thing or something, like training when you've convinced yourself everybody's sleeping and therefore you're somehow training much better. That's powerful even if you look statistically 6 hours may be worse than 8 hours or 4 hours may be worse than 6 hours. So the mind is a powerful thing.
Speaker 1
01:39:14
Super powerful. But if you wanna be a super heavyweight, eat. You gotta eat like stupid amounts all the time.
Speaker 1
01:39:22
Yeah, you have to test your digestive system.
Speaker 2
01:39:25
What's your favorite meal, by the way? Just if you had to, you know, it's your last meal.
Speaker 1
01:39:29
I am, I do, oh geez, I like so much food, it's tough, but I'd say the food that I rely on a lot when I'm getting ready to compete is sushi. Just because it normally comes in an all you can eat format. So I love to go and just binge all you can eat, just all you can eat buffets.
Speaker 1
01:39:50
Sushi is just super convenient.
Speaker 2
01:39:52
Yeah. If I was a sushi, all you can eat buffet place, I'd be terrified when I saw you.
Speaker 1
01:39:58
Have you had barbecue at Texas? Yeah, I love it. I love it, yeah.
Speaker 2
01:40:03
So you, just a small tangent on this, you faced the mountain, how for, well first of all, you arm wrestled him.
Speaker 1
01:40:12
Yeah. It's interesting to ask,
Speaker 2
01:40:14
so this is the mountain from the Game of Thrones, strong man, 1 of the strongest people in the world, for a time, the strongest person in the world. What was it like, I know, sort of, you guys maybe weren't going 1,000%, but what's it like?
Speaker 1
01:40:28
Well, he probably wasn't going 1,000%. Yeah.
Speaker 2
01:40:31
But like what, it's interesting to think, what does that strength feel like? So it's a specialized strength in another sport.
Speaker 1
01:40:41
Yeah.
Speaker 2
01:40:41
What did it feel like? What, how strong was he? What are some kind of deep insights you've drawn from that battle?
Speaker 1
01:40:50
I feel like if we were to go back a thousand years, and if you give him armor and a two-handed sword, he will just rip across the landscape and no 1 will stop him.
Speaker 2
01:41:06
So this is the boxing magical you can do, but there's also a video of them arm wrestling.
Speaker 1
01:41:12
Yeah, what a titan though, what a titan. You know, a guy like that, tall, strong, fit, disciplined. I mean, he's quite a warrior.
Speaker 2
01:41:24
419 pounds?
Speaker 1
01:41:26
Yeah, yeah, he's incredibly impressive. I really like Hapthor and I like Eddie Hall too. And I was just so, I'm just so caught up with the drama.
Speaker 1
01:41:38
Okay, so Eddie Hall and Hap Thor Bjornsson, 2 of the strongest legendary strongmen that we have. And they were the coolest, they were the top when Strongman was really super cool. I don't know all the details, but they legit hit each other. Like legit.
Speaker 1
01:42:00
So I think it kind of stems, I don't know, like I say, I'm not right there with them, but Eddie won the World's Strongest Man event or something 1 year, and the thing is, 1 of those victories where Hapthore was not accepting of his defeat, Okay, and there was a little bit of back and forth. Basically, from what I understand, they were gonna fight like the knight of the world's strongest man. And they kinda got pulled apart, and this heat between them got translated into a potential boxing match. So it's very real.
Speaker 1
01:42:36
It's a very real fight. So you have the 2 strongest dudes on the planet are gonna fight each other. So I've been like, you know, cause arm wrestling and strong man, it's kind of similar communities.
Speaker 2
01:42:49
Who do you got? If you were giving me financial advice.
Speaker 1
01:42:53
Oh, Jesus. I am so bad. I always call it wrong.
Speaker 1
01:42:57
They're very different. I, I see, Hap Thor is being, you know, more
Speaker 2
01:43:03
Eddie Hall slimming down. Is that what you mean?
Speaker 1
01:43:05
As well. I see Hap Thor as a bit more regimented, but I see Eddie Hall as like way more barbaric and like, I think he's a little bit more athletic, but Hapthorne's bigger and, and you know, they've chosen slightly different paths to prepare for the match. But, but what happened was like, they were about to fight and Eddie, Eddie Hall blew his bicep.
Speaker 1
01:43:30
So me, I was getting ready for LeVon in December. We were supposed to arm wrestle in December, but he's got his movie, and so I was like, okay, I can kind of get away from the sport just a little bit, broaden my base. That happened, and I was like, Oh, an opportunity.
Speaker 2
01:43:47
You stepped in.
Speaker 1
01:43:47
An opportunity to fight. I'm like, I'll do it. So.
Speaker 2
01:43:50
How much training, you trained a little bit. So can you tell about your own decision to do that? What was the training like?
Speaker 2
01:43:57
What was the experience like?
Speaker 1
01:43:58
Yeah, oh, it was so much fun. It was so much fun. So basically, I made a funny video and I sent it to the organizers of CoreSports that I would do it.
Speaker 1
01:44:09
I'm like, I'll do it. I'm sure they got a thousand people who wanted to do it. But I'm like, listen, I'm an old man. I'm gimped up everywhere outside the arm wrestling lanes.
Speaker 1
01:44:21
I said, but I will 100%, like if you let me fight him, I'll give it my all. And whatever, they didn't get back to me. They're like, whatever, okay. So then they call me on a Friday, like 5 weeks before the event, and they're like, hey, Devin, were you serious?
Speaker 1
01:44:39
And I'm like, oh, shit. And I'm like, Yes, I was serious, yeah, I'll do it. And they're like, okay, it's down to you and 2 other people, we'll get back to you in a day or 2, but you would do it. And I'm like, okay.
Speaker 1
01:44:57
So they got back to me on Sunday. So right away I'm skipping rope and I'm like, and I only arm wrestle legs, that's all I do.
Speaker 2
01:45:07
So what was your, you did some striking training.
Speaker 1
01:45:10
Yeah, so I went to this guy that, he was awesome, Zach Ben Bushida there. That was it, from TriStar. Do you know Firas Zahabi?
Speaker 1
01:45:22
And yes, people in
Speaker 2
01:45:23
the comments, I will interview him on this podcast.
Speaker 1
01:45:26
He's brilliant, right? He's an incredible guy. So right away, I had no idea about the fight community across Canada really.
Speaker 1
01:45:33
And I got like, by the fifth message that said, you must train with Firas. I was like, okay, called him up. He was incredible right away. He's like, yeah, you can come and we'll just work with you.
Speaker 1
01:45:46
So I got, I got the call. I called him on like Monday at 02:00 by like 07:00. I had my things packed and I went to Montreal and I spent 4 weeks in, in the fighter dorms, just humbling yourself every day, just getting punched in the face, you know, over and over, going for runs with all, like they're all like Olympians and pro fighters living in the dorms, super cool dudes. They were so good to me.
Speaker 2
01:46:15
Yeah, there's a good video of you and Faraz just talking. Yeah. I don't remember which stage this was, but basically...
Speaker 2
01:46:22
This is early. But you were already beginning to get humbled.
Speaker 1
01:46:25
Oh, man, I knew. I mean, I knew what I was getting into. Like, I knew it was gonna be a losing battle, but I felt like the opportunity to fight Thor, like how cool is that?
Speaker 1
01:46:37
Like I had to say, I had to do it. I love the process and I learned a lot from doing it. Like the dorms, I wanna do something like that with arm wrestling. I think we're big enough now that we can have these kind of dorms, frat houses, whatever you wanna call it.
Speaker 2
01:46:56
What's the dorm like? So you're basically staying there, the food is there. So you mentioned, what was the word you used?
Speaker 2
01:47:03
Administration? No, no.
Speaker 1
01:47:04
Yeah, exactly, that's it. So it removes all of that. Makes it so simple.
Speaker 1
01:47:08
You can just focus. You know, the gym is here, you live here. Yeah. You know, that your life becomes simple.
Speaker 1
01:47:15
Yeah. So there's a
Speaker 2
01:47:16
guy named Jimmy Pedro here in America. He's a famous coach, there's a place up in Boston. He has kind of a dorm like that too.
Speaker 2
01:47:23
And that becomes essential when the community is small but you're trying to do epic things like win an Olympic gold. So you have to really put the people together in these kind of minimalist conditions when they just focus on the training, focus, focus, focus.
Speaker 1
01:47:42
Yeah, it wasn't enough time. I mean, I trained for about 3 or 4 weeks, but I loved the journey.
Speaker 2
01:47:50
What are some of the fun things you enjoyed? So you did mostly striking, did you? Yeah, I guess it was.
Speaker 2
01:47:54
Yeah, it was boxing. It was straight up boxing.
Speaker 1
01:47:56
Boxing, yeah.
Speaker 2
01:47:57
What are some things that were transferable? What are some cool things you learned from that. So from the world of arm wrestling, have you taken anything back?
Speaker 2
01:48:05
Like some training regimens, ideas about training, even just, even movements? Because for us it's a unique mind as well for training.
Speaker 1
01:48:17
Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I've gone very far down the path of arm wrestling. Boxing and arm wrestling are very different.
Speaker 1
01:48:28
They're very different sports. The physicality required is very different. The mentality, I mean, it's fighting, so it's another form of fighting, which is cool. The big things that I took back from it, the things that I loved about it was I had to run again.
Speaker 2
01:48:49
So really work on endurance.
Speaker 1
01:48:51
Yeah, yeah, I was going for runs with guys in the dorms and they would just destroy me. Just like, It was so bad. Did you,
Speaker 2
01:49:04
like how did you feel in the actual boxing in terms of endurance? Were you able to? No, no.
Speaker 1
01:49:11
It's a torture. It was terrible. And the thing is, It was so crazy for me because I really was good once upon a time.
Speaker 1
01:49:19
Yeah. I really was like physically, like I had incredible full body endurance, you know. But you know, being so specialized, I realized how much I had slipped and yeah, it was, it was fun to try and regain. I think it's affected my body composition.
Speaker 1
01:49:36
I think since that training I've become much more lean, I think it was a very healthy thing for me to do, like health wise, like I always think that, you know, when you're far away from competition, it's really good to kind of spread out, really good. So I think that in that way.
Speaker 2
01:49:51
Also for your mind too.
Speaker 1
01:49:53
Yeah. Yeah. Just like. Yeah.
Speaker 2
01:49:56
Yeah. So something about clearing your, I think you've talked about this as like, you're basically taking steps back before you take steps forward. I forget how you call it.
Speaker 1
01:50:08
Yeah, the wave. Yeah. Yeah, under, you know, you have to go under.
Speaker 1
01:50:13
You gotta. You know, if you wanna go above the line, you have to spend some time beneath it. And yeah, I was definitely beneath the line for a long time. But mountain, I mean, like the interesting thing was as incredible as he is, You know, like what a monster.
Speaker 1
01:50:32
And I think if you had had him training in boxing, you know, for a long time and like from his youth, I think you, you know, the guy could be world champion. But, you know, to be so specialized and then to switch, you're at a disadvantage. And also, I know from just fighting guys in the gym in TriStar, some of those guys were way scarier, for real. As scary as Thor is, there's guys in that TriStar gym that don't look like anything, that would murder me much worse, much worse.
Speaker 2
01:51:10
Yeah, but also, you know, that's the difference between being in the gym and under the lights too. I mean, GSB is an example, Georges St-Pierre is an example, somebody that maybe doesn't look terrifying. But he's quite, he's super nice, super humble, but is terrifying when he's fighting, is dominating people.
Speaker 2
01:51:34
You mentioned death and your Canadian special forces and in general, thinking about mortality. Do you think about your death? Do you contemplate the end, that this ride ends?
Speaker 1
01:51:50
All the time, yeah. From, I've thought about death from a young age. Are you afraid of it?
Speaker 1
01:51:56
Yeah, I hate it. Yeah, I don't wanna die. Yeah, definitely don't wanna die. But there's times when I can rid myself of it.
Speaker 1
01:52:05
Yeah, but for sure, I mean, I'm not happy that death is inevitable, and I'm not happy that potentially it's inevitable for all of us. But it does, you know, I like to fight against it. Yeah, that's just-
Speaker 2
01:52:26
If you could be immortal, would you
Speaker 1
01:52:28
choose to? Oh, that's my only wish.
Speaker 2
01:52:30
Oh, see, but here's the thing. But the point is to have that wish. It's like the all you can eat buffet at sushi.
Speaker 2
01:52:40
It's that sushi's more delicious if you have a limit.
Speaker 1
01:52:43
Do you have a, oh, well, I don't know. I mean, I don't think I get sick of stuff, I'm very simple. Yeah, I don't think I would get tired of it, I really don't.
Speaker 1
01:52:53
I mean, if someone would pose it to you, do you wanna live forever? You would choose no?
Speaker 2
01:52:59
Yeah, I would choose no. Choose no. Well, my answer's probably yes.
Speaker 2
01:53:04
Like, no, I would, it's more like the snooze button. Do you wanna, do you want to? Well, you could go to sleep. But it's very difficult in the moment to go to sleep.
Speaker 2
01:53:15
But if I'm allowed to live forever, I'm going to delay all the crazy, like all the ambitious goals, all the, because there's always time.
Speaker 1
01:53:31
That's fine, but there is tomorrow then.
Speaker 2
01:53:33
But there is tomorrow, but see, I think that takes away from the richness of the lived experience of just each moment. I think the richness of each moment comes from saying, I could die tonight. It tastes delicious because you're going to die.
Speaker 2
01:53:54
I'm afraid all of that goes away. All of that magic goes away if you can live forever.
Speaker 1
01:54:00
I don't know. But I'll tell you, every time I have a near-death experience or think I'm gonna die, I definitely live better afterwards. Yeah, like it's always been that way.
Speaker 1
01:54:11
But yeah, no.
Speaker 2
01:54:14
That's why the Stoics, you know, they really preach contemplating your mortality often. It kind of reminds you, this whole thing could just end any moment and it makes you really appreciate. Yeah, I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 2
01:54:28
Certainly improving the quality of life is important, but part of me thinks that immortality is not as fun as we would like to imagine.
Speaker 1
01:54:43
Do you think that maybe you're, in what you're building, potentially, is immortal?
Speaker 2
01:54:49
Well, that's what I definitely think about with robots. If they were to have a human-like experience and be able to interact with humans in a deep, meaningful way, I think they too have to be mortal in some fundamental way that means mortal. Like their ride has to end as well because they won't be able to interact with humans deeply unless that's the case.
Speaker 2
01:55:18
Like to have fear, to have love, the ability to suffer, the ability to miss somebody, I think scarcity is important. You have to be able to truly lose somebody. You have to be, to fear things, you have to truly have the risk of destroying yourself. And to have a sense of what it means to be a self, you have to be able to lose it.
Speaker 2
01:55:50
So if you're immortal, you're just going to be, I feel like you're going to be like a toaster, an intelligent toaster that just serves.
Speaker 1
01:56:00
Such a negative perspective on it. On immortality? Yeah, just think, well now you can get all those things done that you wanna do.
Speaker 2
01:56:08
I hope you're right, I hope you're right.
Speaker 1
01:56:10
Yeah, I mean, potentially, you could invest even harder because you're like, wow, I'm actually gonna be able to get all this stuff done.
Speaker 2
01:56:17
I think about this a lot. I hope you're right, but I fear that the drive to create, I can even do more, all of that disappears if you have all the time in the world. I just know how lazy I am.
Speaker 2
01:56:33
And if I have all the time in the world, I'm just gonna sit there and just like watch the stupidest YouTube videos for the rest of all eternity. Now eternity's a long time. Eat Doritos and Cheetos and just get fatter and fatter. I can get in shape later, there's always time.
Speaker 1
01:56:53
That's like a long period of contemplation. Yeah.
Speaker 2
01:56:57
So for the first thousand years, it'll be the Dorito period of the Lex life. And then.
Speaker 1
01:57:03
You could be like Jabba the Hutt for a thousand years.
Speaker 2
01:57:06
You mentioned aliens, very important topic. Do you actually think about this as being an increased interest? It has been increased UFO sightings and encounters, all that kind of stuff, the US government at least releasing data, releasing videos of pilots, pilot observations and from airplanes of UFOs.
Speaker 2
01:57:30
Do you think about this kind of stuff? Because you mentioned the following context. You mentioned like, us humans will get our shit together when the aliens eventually come. What do you make of all the sightings?
Speaker 2
01:57:43
Is that something you think about?
Speaker 1
01:57:45
I thought about it a lot when I was younger. And I've just, I made my conclusions and yeah, III don't think that there's a possibility that there aren't aliens. I would think there would be impossible for there not to be aliens.
Speaker 1
01:57:59
There, you know, you know, I, I feel like this is pretty good real estate, so you'd probably want it. But we already might be, well I don't even think might, I mean it's probably quite likely that we are to some degree aliens. I mean all life is probably to some degree alien.
Speaker 2
01:58:16
I like the real estate, so the resources, but we're also kind of interesting. Yeah. Whatever this ant colony of living organisms that we've created, it's kind of interesting to study.
Speaker 2
01:58:27
I tend to believe that the alien civilizations that are going to reach us, or have reached us, are far more intelligent, just orders of magnitude more intelligent than us. And so it's going to be very difficult both ways actually, for us to understand them and for them to dumb themselves down enough to understand us.
Speaker 1
01:58:47
Yeah, probably.
Speaker 2
01:58:48
So they might even just miss our existence altogether, just because I tend to believe, I don't know what you think, that we're not that special in terms of all the life forms in the universe. There's a lot of cool stuff out there. And- Has to be,
Speaker 1
01:59:06
has to be.
Speaker 2
01:59:06
But to us, we're special.
Speaker 1
01:59:08
Yeah, well, that's all that matters, right?
Speaker 2
01:59:10
Yeah. Even the human species is the most special to us humans. There could be much more special species here on Earth they were just totally oblivious to, like trees on a scale of thousands of years, maybe they're onto something. Lex, you know,
Speaker 1
01:59:30
I think that so much of what makes a person special is what they pass on, your kids. But I think that you are quite special because you're part of this thing that's potentially giving birth to the next thing.
Speaker 2
01:59:47
The robots. The robots. I should say, the funny thing is, while talking to Devin, during this podcast, I had a doorbell ring, had to go downstairs, and there was a big box.
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