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Ryan Hall is a BJJ black belt, head instructor of 50/50 BJJ, an ADCC bronze medalist with a long career in high level competition throughout which he has beaten many of the  top grapplers in the world; we talked about moral victory, maintaining a stoic expression, a unified theory of grappling, the value of competition, a lifelong pursuit of a singular goal, best martial art for self defense, cultivating ego, and much more.

Can you explain how your morality contributes to the way you see the value of winning?

I think there's absolutely such a thing as a moral victory and sometimes people that are trying to manipulate you or trying to get you to buy something will tell you differently.

For instance let's say you're a blue belt and you compete against you know a real black belt and there's plenty of people running on black belts that are not particularly at this point but you know let's say for instance you're a blue belt and you compete against a real black belt the likelihood of you winning is almost 0.

However, if you go out there and you try hard and you do your best, and again, whether you come off the mat, you know, a winner, which would be very fortunate and unlikely, but or you come off the mat, you know, on the other side of things, if you went after it, and you tried and you, you know, let's say you had some nerves, but you kept that in check, and you fought hard, you didn't let it get the better of you you know that would be in my opinion a moral victory and and there would be nothing wrong for recognizing it as such now that's not the same thing as an actual physical victory but there's nothing wrong with saying let's say your your opponents 260 pounds and you're 120 and you tie, they get the decision.

Hey, I remember that happened to me at the quarterfinal, or not the quarterfinal, rather in the third round of the absolute in the worlds in 2008.

And it was against a heavyweight or super heavyweight and ended up 0-0 and I wasn't happy about losing by any stretch of the imagination.

But looking back, I'm like, oh, okay, well, you know, generally speaking, if you end up level considering that I have all of the resources and you don't, that is, you know, you definitely performed a little bit better than I did.

Now, at the end of the day, wins and losses do matter, and you do wanna try to make sure that I'm not shooting for the moral victory.

But every now and then, it's very, very important to keep in mind that am I just asking myself, am I conducting myself in a way that I respect, that hopefully other people of value will respect, and also a way that I believe is going to produce actual victory and actual positive results in the long run as well.

I think it's important to recognize that, because sometimes you'll see people get very frustrated.

Let's say, for instance, if I box against people that are much more experienced than me all the time, I'm not going to win.

Anyone that tells you differently is either not training with people that are very good or B, they have no idea what they're talking about.

But what I can say is, hey, did I do a little bit better today?

And better doesn't mean that I land more punches necessarily.

Was I more able to kind of keep my focus and execute what I wanted to execute?

And if the answer to that is yes, you know, I'm moving in the right direction.

So as far as I'm concerned, there's all sorts of different types of moral victory, but it would be the same thing as, you know, let's say for instance, you know, Fedor slaps your mother.

He's going to kick the shit out of you, almost certainly, but you have to hit him.

It would not be, it would be a technical like, well, I didn't get hurt, so that's a win if you ran away, but that would be the opposite of the moral victory in that case.

Trying your best and losing would still be, I would say, the honorable thing to do.

So what you're saying is sometimes you have to pay the price for a moral victory.

Absolutely, but the reality is that martial arts doesn't just teach us about how to beat someone up or technique or this or that.

That's really not the core of the martial arts.

The core of the martial arts is heart, discipline, dedication, focus.

And if you have those things, there'll always be people better than you.

And there'll always be people lesser than you.

But that's not the only metric by which you can judge performance or judge a person.


Speaker 0: You talked about moral victory. Can you explain how your morality contributes to the way you see the value of winning?

Speaker 1: Sure. I think there's absolutely such a thing as a moral victory and sometimes people that are trying to manipulate you or trying to get you to buy something will tell you differently. And, you know, it goes in 2 directions. For instance let's say you're a blue belt and you compete against you know a real black belt and there's plenty of people running on black belts that are not particularly at this point but you know let's say for instance you're a blue belt and you compete against a real black belt the likelihood of you winning is almost 0. However, if you go out there and you try hard and you do your best, and again, whether you come off the mat, you know, a winner, which would be very fortunate and unlikely, but or you come off the mat, you know, on the other side of things, if you went after it, and you tried and you, you know, let's say you had some nerves, but you kept that in check, and you fought hard, you didn't let it get the better of you you know that would be in my opinion a moral victory and and there would be nothing wrong for recognizing it as such now that's not the same thing as an actual physical victory but there's nothing wrong with saying let's say your your opponents 260 pounds and you're 120 and you tie, they get the decision.

Hey, I remember that happened to me at the quarterfinal, or not the quarterfinal, rather in the third round of the absolute in the worlds in 2008. And it was against a heavyweight or super heavyweight and ended up 0-0 and I wasn't happy about losing by any stretch of the imagination. But looking back, I'm like, oh, okay, well, you know, generally speaking, if you end up level considering that I have all of the resources and you don't, that is, you know, you definitely performed a little bit better than I did. Now, at the end of the day, wins and losses do matter, and you do wanna try to make sure that I'm not shooting for the moral victory. I'm shooting for the actual victory.

But every now and then, it's very, very important to keep in mind that am I just asking myself, am I conducting myself in a way that I respect, that hopefully other people of value will respect, and also a way that I believe is going to produce actual victory and actual positive results in the long run as well. I think it's important to recognize that, because sometimes you'll see people get very frustrated. Let's say, for instance, if I box against people that are much more experienced than me all the time, I'm not going to win. Anyone that tells you differently is either not training with people that are very good or B, they have no idea what they're talking about. But what I can say is, hey, did I do a little bit better today?

And better doesn't mean that I land more punches necessarily. Was I more under control? Was I more able to kind of keep my focus and execute what I wanted to execute? And if the answer to that is yes, you know, I'm moving in the right direction. So as far as I'm concerned, there's all sorts of different types of moral victory, but it would be the same thing as, you know, let's say for instance, you know, Fedor slaps your mother.

You got to hit him. You have to. He's going to kick the shit out of you, almost certainly, but you have to hit him. It would not be, it would be a technical like, well, I didn't get hurt, so that's a win if you ran away, but that would be the opposite of the moral victory in that case. Trying your best and losing would still be, I would say, the honorable thing to do.

Speaker 0: So what you're saying is sometimes you have to pay the price for a moral victory.

Speaker 1: Absolutely, but the reality is that martial arts doesn't just teach us about how to beat someone up or technique or this or that. That's really not the core of the martial arts. The core of the martial arts is heart, discipline, dedication, focus. And if you have those things, there'll always be people better than you. And there'll always be people lesser than you.

But that's not the only metric by which you can judge performance or judge a person.

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Ryan Hall: Moral Victory